The biggest paradox in the history of mandkind

[radx]

Is how some bleeding heart liberals feel that Terrorists get rights after being arrested. Wow..

[Limeyfellow]

Yes, lets treat them like Germany did to the French Resistence terrorists in the 40s. A great example. Perhaps we can chop off everyones head who disagree with us. What sort of sick inhuman being are you?

I don't understand what we get out of torturing someone to admitting being a terrorist. They will say anything we want them to say and it destroys our credability of liberation and freedom. How does massacreing cities help like what happened in Falluja but turn the local population against us? How does holding thousands of people prisoner just because there might be a terrorist amongst them justified? Would you complain if they arrested a thousand people in say Dallas and tortured them to see if there is a terrorist there? How does doing everything Osama bin Laden claim the US would do really help to prove that we are different and deserve a chance?

Heck they can't even agree on a standard of what a terrorist is. They help a group of Iranian terrorist attack Iran that are based in Iraq after all and give them sanctity. Why are we helping these terrorists? Terrorism has no meaning anymore than a convienent word to villify anyone who disagrees with you nowadays and to all the sudden abandon any protections for these people throws away everything america is supposed to stands for and makes the country in to nothing more than a Saddam wannabe.

[Impulse_t0]

Limeyfellow = commie ?

Affirmative.

[ed316]

I'm no liberal and I do believe that terrorist should be treated harshly, but once we stray from what we are as a country then that slope we go down in is fast and slippery.IMHO

[tsuri]

Is how some bleeding heart liberals feel that Terrorists get rights after being arrested. Wow..

What is the difference between us and terrorists and dictators?

We believe that all humans have basic rights that are not to be violated and can not be taken away.

What do we become if we ignore these rights? Is our society worth protecting if it throws it´s values and rights out of the window when threatened?

[Limeyfellow]

Nice. Being against torture and taking away peoples rights because of something they may or may not do makes you an evil commie. How very cold war-ish. Here was I thinking it made you human and normal not to be for the most debased forms of treatment the world has ever seen.

[caleb]

Wrong Forum, this thread blongs to political discussion/rants.

[ArmedPacifist]

Nice. Being against torture and taking away peoples rights because of something they may or may not do makes you an evil commie. How very cold war-ish. Here was I thinking it made you human and normal not to be for the most debased forms of treatment the world has ever seen.

Heh, I didn't know communist's believed in Human rights and freedom of speech, so maybe that ol' Soviet Union had it right all along eh Limey?

[BurningMan]

I dont think being a foreigner who is not a citizen of the united states and not a UNIFORMED member of a foreign nations armed forces entitles them to any rights, especially when they have admitted to their own activities. Some of you are really afriad to treat them different than a regular citizen who has the right to a fair trial. If they really want our rights, they should force their own respective countries to apply for statehood in the union :P Besides, when all terrorist recruites first join, they sign a waver letting go of their unaleable rights as human beings. I think its called a W-4 form...or is that something else..

[Shake n Bake]

Now we can't even use dogs to intimidate terrorists ....


it's basically impossible for any western country to ever win a war again..Thanks to our terrorist cuddling Leftist friends.

[b.scheller]

Yes, lets treat them like Germany did to the French Resistence terrorists in the 40s. A great example. Perhaps we can chop off everyones head who disagree with us. What sort of sick inhuman being are you?

I don't understand what we get out of torturing someone to admitting being a terrorist. They will say anything we want them to say and it destroys our credability of liberation and freedom. How does massacreing cities help like what happened in Falluja but turn the local population against us? How does holding thousands of people prisoner just because there might be a terrorist amongst them justified? Would you complain if they arrested a thousand people in say Dallas and tortured them to see if there is a terrorist there? How does doing everything Osama bin Laden claim the US would do really help to prove that we are different and deserve a chance?

Heck they can't even agree on a standard of what a terrorist is. They help a group of Iranian terrorist attack Iran that are based in Iraq after all and give them sanctity. Why are we helping these terrorists? Terrorism has no meaning anymore than a convienent word to villify anyone who disagrees with you nowadays and to all the sudden abandon any protections for these people throws away everything america is supposed to stands for and makes the country in to nothing more than a Saddam wannabe.

Please, please, the French Resistance? That's the biggest oxi-moron ever. The French resistance, fought more against the communist resistance than the German occupation force. If you want to source, actual strong, powerful Resistance Armies, that did heavy damage to the German War Machine, than list Tito's Yugoslav Partisans, Poland's Home Army or the Soviet Partisans.

I agree, with the aspect of torture, as far as I'm concerned, anyone will admit to anything, if he's persistantly tortured. A good movie, to watch, is "In the name of the father", where a Catholic Northern Irish youth, admits to bombing a bar, with his Irish friends, full of British soldiers, because the Scotland yard, threatened, that they would go for his father. He of course, was not the culprit, but was a victim of the strong discrimination against the Irish, and a victim of anti-terror laws.

Even the case of William Sampson, a Canadian businessman, who worked and lived in Saudi Arabia, was implicated with the murder of British businessmen, and tortured in a prison. He later, admitted to the killing of his friends, because he was a British spy, mainly due to the fact, that the Saudis were able to break him.

Torture, may or may not work, but more than likely, it will not. It's almost impossible, for one to be truly sure, if the person held captive, is truly a terrorist or not. Besides, if they had been, innocent from the start, and are freed, they will have incentive to join the terror organization, since they have been assaulted and tortured, for something they did not do.

-b.scheller

[Victis Honor]

When you trow those rights away you become just as they are

[BurningMan]

Last time i check we dont randomly torture ppl whenever we feel like it. The time to torture someone is usually when you KNOW they KNOW something but you need the details from them that you know they have. A lot of detainees dont know where Osama is, they dont know every little thing about every little operation of the insurgents in iraq. However they know where the guys live who do know that, and they may know what time he goes to his job, or how many kids there are in the house, or if he has ppl ready to warn him if a convoy drives toward his house. There is just so much information that is needed in this war that in order to win you gotta do what you gotta do. Its just pragmatism.

And for the whole "well then you become just like them, etc" ok well i will agree to that when a bunch of our civilians fly 2 jets into the Dome of the Rock. :P

[2Sheds_Jackson]

Moved to rants.

Personally, I think there are two distinct issues here - one is that of whether terrorists retain human rights (which I think they do) the second is whether torture is a good idea.

I hear "they'll say whatever they must" - but there are many, many cases showing that unfortunately, torture works really well. I was watching the History channel the other day - a show about a group of Mexican bandits, one of whom was the basis for the character Zorro. They eventually caught a bunch of them by capturing a young man - and he would not talk because he was fiercely loyal (had been saved from starvation by the group) - but after hanging from a tree for a few hours, gave them up. Just one anecdotal example.

I would tend to believe that the effectiveness of torture would depend upon the subject, and what you know the subject knows. That being said, the use of torture is pretty ugly - should be an absolute last resort, only when there are surely lives at stake, and even then there must be limits of decency. When I say "torture" I'm referring to modern ideas of torture like isolation, sleep deprivation, playing tricks on them etc., not pulling out fingernails, electrocution, slicing off soft tissue, crushing (peine forte et dure), anally inserted truncheons, "scaling", crushing fingers and toes under chair legs, flaqua, plastic bags over heads, water submersion, steel poles down the throat, live burial, boiling, pitchcapping, flagellation, mankurt, brazen bull, mancuerda, scaphism, flaying etc. -which are somewhat worse.

[Impulse_t0]

hahaha I called him a commie because anyone who disagrees with anything is a commie.