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Thread: simply the best fighter pilots of WW2

  1. #1
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    Default simply the best fighter pilots of WW2

    does are pilots that scored 100 or more victories againts the western allies
    hans-joachim marseille 158
    heins bar 124
    kurt buhligen 112
    I could name you 8 more that have Over 100 kill but i will stop at 3
    now on the east
    erich hartmann 352
    gerhard barkhorn 302
    gunther rall 275
    I will stop at 3 there's just to many here

    whit jet --> heinz bar 16
    erich rudorffer 12
    theodor weissenberger 8
    --------------------------
    royal air force j pattle 41 he was (SA) not UK
    (canada) george buerling 31 whit the RAF
    A.G malan 35 also (SA) whit RAF
    B.E finucane 32 (Ir) whit RAF
    the best pilots in the RAF where not English..
    ------------------------------
    USAAF
    richard bong 40
    t.b. mcguire 38
    f.s gabreski 31

    USMC J.J foss 26
    RM hanson 25
    G boyington 22

    USN D Mccambell 34

    ----------------------
    Japan Hiroyoshi nishizawa 103

    they are more ...maybe next time

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    Senior Member oldsoak's Avatar
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    dont forget Johnnie Johnson - RCAF

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    Quote Originally Posted by oldsoak
    dont forget Johnnie Johnson - RCAF
    Johnny Johnson wasn't Canadian, he was british. He was SL of a canadian squadron of the RAF though.

    James Edgar Johnson was born at Melton Mowbray and educated at Loughborough School and Nottingham University, where he read engineering. Before the war he worked as a civil engineer and also applied to join the Auxiliary Air Force. But, unknown to him, a broken collarbone sustained while playing rugby had not properly set, and his application was turned down. Undaunted, he enlisted in the Leicester Yeomanry, TA.

    With war clouds gathering, however, he was able to join the RAF Volunteer Reserve for weekend training. In August 1939 he was called up and after gaining his wings was first posted to 19 Squadron. But No 19 was far too heavily involved in the Battle of Britain to absorb a 'rookie' pilot (it was also having frustrating teething troubles with its first cannon-armed Spitfires, and in the end reverted to the tried and tested eight Browning machine-guns). Johnson was therefore sent to 616 Squadron, Auxiliary Air Force, which was not in the thick of the air fighting at that time.

    But it was not until the Dieppe raid of August 19, by which time he had been given command of 610 Squadron, that he had his first Fw 190 kill. It was to be the first of many he shot down as improved marks of the Spitfire closed the gap on the Fw 190. Early in 1943 he was appointed leader of the Canadian wing at Kenley. As Bader had discovered with the Canadian 242 Squadron in 1940, he found that its pilots distrusted him at first. But, by improving on the wing's somewhat outdated flying tactics he led it inspirationally in what turned out to be a period of hectic action over the Continent. Over the next four months the wing took a severe toll of occupied France's fighter defences, its leader adding more than a dozen to his own tally in that time. Johson was soon held in affection and respect by his men, who awarded him the insignia 'Canada' which, in breach of regulations, he had sewn to the upper sleeves of his uniform tunic.

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    Egon Meyr...

    and so many many ,more. "Fuerst" Wilcke, "Gulle" Oesau. So many forgetten heroes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ericsson
    royal air force j pattle 41 he was (SA) not UK
    (canada) george buerling 31 whit the RAF
    A.G malan 35 also (SA) whit RAF
    B.E finucane 32 (Ir) whit RAF
    the best pilots in the RAF where not English..
    Many pilots from the British Empire joined the RAF the British aces were

    38 Group Captain J.E. Johnson United Kingdom
    29 Wing Commander J.R.D. Graham United Kingdom
    29 Wing Commander R.R.S. Tuck United Kingdom
    28 Squadron Leader J.H. Lacey United Kingdom
    26 Flight Lieutenant E.S. Lock United Kingdom
    24.5 Wing Commander B. Drake United Kingdom
    24 Squadron Leader W. Vale United Kingdom
    23 Flight Lieutenant G. Allard United Kingdom
    23 Wing Commander D.R.S. Bader United Kingdom

    They are all British



    In case anyone is wordering why ze germans have so many more kills, here's an extract from Erich Hartmann's biography on wikipedia

    Erich Alfred "Bubi" Hartmann (April 19, 1922 - September 20, 1993) was the most successful fighter ace in the history of aerial combat. [SIZE=4]He shot down [*******Red]352[/COLOR] enemy aircraft of which[*******Red] 345[/COLOR] were Soviet[/SIZE], while serving with the Luftwaffe, Germany's air force, in World War II.

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    I'm going to go out on a limb here and say the person who posed this is German, lol

    Don't forget Stanford Tuck, he flew Hurricanes during the BoB

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    I'm going to go out on a limb here and say the person who posed this is German, lol
    Probably. Although the level of modesty he displays is quite American. :P

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    Therer are many reasons why so many German pilots had these unbelievable, extraordinary records. One was, undeniable, an unrivalled quality and experience of those at the top of the lists. Others were the initially better equipment, better tactics and dedication, especially to the fellow soldiers and their wingmen. Many aces flew with the same persons as wingmen or gunners for the whole war. And one more thing: there was no magical number for German pilots.

    There was no number of victories after which they earned a retirement or front break like in many allied squadrons. If German pilots survived in the morning, they would sit again in their machines in the evening. Stalin for example was quick to promote his most heroic soldiers of all branches out of the immediate action, to keep them as symbols of the soviet superiourity without endangering them.

    When it comes to people like Hartmann, it is unfair to suggest that he had inferior enemies as the previous poster did - implicating that this would have been different with against allied pilots. Hartmanns truly astounding feature is that he survived over 1400 missions despite the fact that there was a bounty of 10.000 rubles on his head, and a special squadron of only the best pilots was formed to hunt him down.

    But while we are at it, I would like to direct your attention the man who is considered to be the single most effective, hard-boiled and above all deadliest soldier of recorded war history: Major Hans Ulrich Rudel. He wasnt a fighter pilot, he flew a Junkers Ju-87 Stuka almost his whole carreer. With this he managed to score 9-13 air victories, which is considerably more than the average score. But in addition to this he had:
    - 519 confiremd tank kills
    - killed one Battleship, cruiser and destroyer each (though with the help of others)
    - about 70 smaller naval vessels kills
    - about 800 other vehicle kills
    - about 150 AT, AA and Artillery kills
    an uncounted number of Bunkers, fortified positions, bridges, logistics camps....

    All this in 2530 departures and while being shot down more than 30 times. The bounty on his had wasnt 10.000 Rubles, it was a whopping 100.000 Rubles. It was calculated (though by biased sources) that 1000 departures would mean 300.000 flown kilometers, 20 tank wagons of kerosene, 3 train wagons of MG ammunition and 35 train wagons carrying 500t of bombs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vandervahn

    When it comes to people like Hartmann, it is unfair to suggest that he had inferior enemies as the previous poster did - implicating that this would have been different with against allied pilots. Hartmanns truly astounding feature is that he survived over 1400 missions despite the fact that there was a bounty of 10.000 rubles on his head, and a special squadron of only the best pilots was formed to hunt him down.

    But while we are at it, I would like to direct your attention the man who is considered to be the single most effective, hard-boiled and above all deadliest soldier of recorded war history: Major Hans Ulrich Rudel. He wasnt a fighter pilot, he flew a Junkers Ju-87 Stuka almost his whole carreer. With this he managed to score 9-13 air victories, which is considerably more than the average score. But in addition to this he had:
    - 519 confiremd tank kills
    - killed one Battleship, cruiser and destroyer each (though with the help of others)
    - about 70 smaller naval vessels kills
    - about 800 other vehicle kills
    - about 150 AT, AA and Artillery kills
    an uncounted number of Bunkers, fortified positions, bridges, logistics camps....

    All this in 2530 departures and while being shot down more than 30 times. The bounty on his had wasnt 10.000 Rubles, it was a whopping 100.000 Rubles. It was calculated (though by biased sources) that 1000 departures would mean 300.000 flown kilometers, 20 tank wagons of kerosene, 3 train wagons of MG ammunition and 35 train wagons carrying 500t of bombs.
    Rudel also helped in the making of the A-10.

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    Rudel was also the only person ever to be awarded the Gold Knight's Cross with swords, oak leaves, and diamonds.

    I didn't know he helped design the A-10, that's pretty badass, and goes a long to explain why it kicks so much ass!

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    There's no doubts that Nazi Germany had some of the best fighter pilots, who amassed huge tallies. There's also no doubt that, if you take careful note of statistics, that more German expertens were killed in combat than survive the war.

    I've argued before that - not taking away the great skill of these pilots - these huge scores are actually an indication of the Luftwaffe's weakness, rather than its strength. Simply put, these expertens were left in combat for far too long, and allowed to be killed off one by one, with the net result that by the time the crunch comes, Germany had only a very small pool of good pilots left, and a large pool of poorly trained and inexperienced pilots.

    The former feeds into the latter. The instructors in Luftwaffe flight schools were often low quality pilots themselves, who were therefore not posted to combat units. Combat experienced pilots, in turn, do not tend to be posted as instructors to impart their hard earned combat experiences and to improve the curriculum in light of their experience. Thus a vicious cycle is formed where each succeeding batches of pilots became more and more ill-trained, while the original 1939/40 pool of pilots were killed off one by one.

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    ogukuo72

    I heave heard this theory before and it is not very convincing. The difference between the Germans and the Allies was that they were facing an enemy that was massively outnumbering them most of the time. (The Soviets had at least 5 to 6 times as many aircraft then the Luftwaffe when Barbarossa started. And they had far superior numbers again from 1943 onwards. The Western Allies could afford to concentrate on building planes and massively outnumbered the Germans as well).
    The Luftwaffe simply did not have the luxury to retire Pilots like anyone else. Everyone was needed badly, especially the experienced ones.

    It is the usual mistake you make. Somewhat like 5 guys who have won a baroom fight against one adversary...and later brag about their superior unarmed fighting techniques or how they have conserved their endurance better during the fight. Very clever, indeed.

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    the victories scored Over heavy Bombers is worthy of special attention
    heavily armed four -engined Boeing fortress & Liberator usally flying in dense formation protected by enormous firepower & later by superb escort fighters where far more difficult to destroy then smaller aircraft
    the leading heavy bomber specialists
    Herbert Rollwage 44
    Walther Dahl 36
    Werner Schroer 26
    Hugo frey 26
    Egon Mayer 25
    Kurt Buhligen 24
    Heinz bar 21
    Hans-Heinrich Konig 20
    Heinz Knoke 19
    ------------------------
    the German airforce was out man 20 to 1 x 5
    that's why they had to be in the air ASAP.
    -----------------------------------------

    Allied Pilot who scored ten or more confirmed Victories during the Battle of Britain
    the top is
    Sgt J Frantisek = 17 Hurricanes 303 Sqdn Czech.. top scoring czech and Allied Pilot...

    Plt off E S Lock 16+1 shared spitfires 41 sqdn top scoring british pilot

    Jg carbury 15+1 shared spitfires 603 sqdn top new zealand pilot

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    Default you have serious problems

    I,m Canadian

    and this is (Military History and Tactics) not sagacious politics.
    If you don,t like the real "statistics" that's just to BAD for you.

    has for the other guys if you have any more Info
    be free to post it..

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    Where the heck are the Soviet air aces of the war?

    Lokos

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