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Thread: Croatian Military Pictures! - Read the first post carefully!

  1. #4141

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    Hm hm. has the fact that new MoD was a soldier effected this year's article about presidents New Year address to our soldiers abroad
    Check last year compared to this year
    Much much shorter and without any identity of those who were talking with the Commander in chief
    Perhaps Kotromanović wants to enhance the confidentiality of some data

    But, on the other hand... he almost stands attention while officer reports to president

    Still, aside from decision to return MoD seat back to town, we didn't hear much about future plans. Yet.

  2. #4142
    Senior Member fiorellabel's Avatar
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    Default It seems it will begin to work very fast.

    It seems also he would be back at work very fast.

    http://www.morh.hr/hr/vijesti-najave...ca-na-hvu.html

    Hope that with that the loooong pause for election and government change would be over.

  3. #4143

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mikojan View Post
    I'm sorry to say this but what the hell are you talking about?!?!

    Croatia cannot nor will it ever produce new tanks from scratch. The 2 Degmans we have are the 2 prototypes of the Vihor tank project that were left behind in 1991 and were modernized with the help of Israeli companies to the M-95 level as we know it today. After we figured out that producing a new tank type independently is impossible for us we concentrated on the modernization of the M-84 tanks to the M-84D standard. Why else do you think the whole M-95 Degman idea was cancelled in the first place? All the M-84s we produced up until 2003 (when last 5 were handed over to the army) were completed from the parts that were left behind at the Đuro Đaković factory in 1991, and some components that were missing were imported either from Slovenia, Poland or Russia. .... The only thing we can do (and probably will soon enough) is to modernize existing 2 battalions to M-84D level... and even this requires Israeli (ERA armour, RCWS gun), French (communication equipment) and German (new tracks and possibly engine) help....
    I'm not trying to lecture you here but be careful what you write and do your research before you post such information here.
    I'm sorry to say this but what the hell are YOU talking about?!?!

    In the period from '91-'98 there where different examples of M-84 produced/patched together from various parts, left from Yu or imported. But a series of 20 pcs. of M-84A4 was buit from scratch in ĐĐ. Components were built or imported. Those M-84A4 used the new FCS, and that goverment order was to be some 50 pcs. but was canceled. Conteract was signed in '99, lasted '01-'03. But it seems ĐĐ build some chassies and aguierd parts and they are stored now, partialy paid.
    Degman is not a Vihor, it is a follow up (or down)! There was a single Vihor body that was left in Sr.(mated with M-84 turret). There were two cast Vihor turrets in ĐĐ. They were mated to a M-84 body to form first Degman prototypes. Later a welded turret was built for Degman,( if you bother to search look on ĐĐ website under "montaža", there is the picture). Degman ended just as a prototype program. What is most important in M-84D is that it is a complete overhaul of older M-84s, upgrade with things learned from Degman and use of some new equipment is a bonus.

    All that stuff about producing a new tank type independently is impossible , well M-84, Degman etc, it just a T-72 with upgrades, and there are a lot of parts you can buy. Degman is even more easier to build in DD since it has wellded turret, but it's just a money issue, nothing more. Look, even if we built them in numbers, then what? To what units they should/could go to?

    I'm not trying to lecture YOU here but be careful what you write and do YOUR research before you post such information here.

  4. #4144
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    We built all the M-84A4s from scratch?! To build sth from scratch means to produce all the components on your own but you yourself said: "In the period from '91-'98 there where different examples of M-84 produced/patched together from various parts, left from Yu or imported". Immediatley after that you said. "But a series of 20 pcs. of M-84A4 was buit from scratch in ĐĐ. Components were built or imported." - you basically repeated the same thing, most parts had to be imported or were already present in the factory.

    The M-84A4s were produced/patched together on the same basis as all the tanks produced from 1991 till 1998, but this time the tank had some improvements (FAC Omega) and the government signed a deal with the factory securing that all the tanks were produced on the same level, with strictly determined dead-lines of delivery etc., unlike the tanks which were assembled '91-'98 when every example was financed independently and delivered as soon as the parts became avilable (due to arms embargo, attacks on the factory, insecure financing...).

    About the M-95 Degman - one prototype used the old chassis, the other used the left-behind turret, and we produced a single new turret but coupled it with an already existing body. So, basically, neither of the two prototypes were our own products. So what exactly did you correct in my post? And also, a true Degman version was to have the "Vihor" body and a new turret, this means that it is no longer just a T-72/M-84 upgrade.

    Finally, we actually agreed on the same thing so I don't get it what exactly you wanted to correct in my post:
    1) All the M-84s produced after 1991 used components either already existent or imported. (you said it also)
    2) No further M-95 will ever be produced because the there is no money or need for them. (you said it also)

  5. #4145
    Senior Member fiorellabel's Avatar
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    It seems mr.Orban has an offer for us:

    http://www.croatiantimes.com/news/Ge...nes_to_Croatia

  6. #4146
    Senior Member fiorellabel's Avatar
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    It could be a very good news if confirmed:
    http://www.croatiantimes.com/news/Ge...bian_Peninsula

  7. #4147
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    Fresh pics of Mils in action
    [IMG]http://i44.*******.com/m1r8p.jpg[/IMG]

    [IMG]http://i41.*******.com/bhzmde.jpg[/IMG]


    [IMG]http://i43.*******.com/2zoyvfb.jpg[/IMG]

  8. #4148
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    Some good news about fighter component:

    http://www.vecernji.hr/vijesti/hrvat...-clanak-366150

    The journalist who wrote the article knows his stuff, and the article is very pro-fighters. Interestingly, it says that president Josipović, when he said that fighters won't be acquired, was misinformed by some of his staff (I wonder who) with bad and outright untruthful info. This by itself is a serious problem, it means that people hostile to Croatia advise our president.

    However, in the meantime, Josipović was informed of the pro-fighter arguments and requested to see all offers. Maybe he'll see that EUR 2-3 billion for Eurofighters or Gripens means 2-3 billion invested in Croatia industry and econom, something we desperately need.

  9. #4149
    Senior Member fiorellabel's Avatar
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    Very interesting also the panel with fly cost for hour.
    Even if some data seems me grossly exagerated.
    Last edited by fiorellabel; 01-15-2012 at 07:17 PM.

  10. #4150
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    The Mig-29 cost per flight hour is ridiculously exaggerated, especially since only the new ones are available for purchase, which have a further reduced cost per flight hour of 2.5 times less than the old Mig-29s.

  11. #4151
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    Yes, cost per flight hours are hugely overestimated. It seems they just converted $US to EUR without adjusting the actual figure, and EUR66,000 for Typhoon is ridiculous. I read that F-22A costs around $45,000 per hour, and that's the most advanced and complicated fighter in the world.

    Last I read, Typhoon was $14,000 per hour, Gripen $3,000-4,500 and so on. It doesn't really matter, the important thing is that the people who will make the decision have the right info, and I sincerely hope they're not looking at our press for reliable data.

  12. #4152
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    The one for the Typhoon actually isn't that ridiculous, as that is what Austria has calculated that they are paying for the Eurofighters for every hour they fly. But it probably isn't the direct cost per hour of flight, but probably costs of operation divided through hours of flight. Whatever it is, the Eurofighter is crazy expensive to operate, especially if none of it is produced in your country.

    The last sentence is true.

  13. #4153
    Senior Member fiorellabel's Avatar
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    It seems me that those date can only reassure us about hat as generally agreed throught the various discussions we had every time a ne proposal for substitution of croatian fighter popped up.
    Maintenance cost are definitively part of the deal and Gripen , whatever costly in regard of initial acquisition is clearly in advantage because of that.
    Last edited by fiorellabel; 01-18-2012 at 02:58 PM.

  14. #4154
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    Minister Kotromanović visited Petrinje barrack and made a statement about his own programs centered about lowering of all unnecessary spending connected with the administrative burden of the Ministery and the duplication of structures between the ministery itself and the General Staff.
    All money such spared Would be readressed to training, istruction and exercitations for active members of the armed forces.

    http://www.morh.hr/hr/vijesti-najave...-petrinji.html


  15. #4155

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    INTERVIEW - Major General Dragutin Repinc, commander of Land Forces CROATIAN We must all be ready for new challenges

    Behind the Army, the largest components of the Armed Forces and the 20th anniversary, we can freely say, extraordinary accomplishments, both domestically and internationally. However, the process of construction and transformation will never stop and the changes expected in this sector is currently working on a proposal for a new structure and organization of the Army. The above mentioned activities, but also to those members of the Army is expected in the area of ​​training, military exercises at home and abroad, and participation in international peacekeeping missions, we talked with the commander of the Croatian Army Major General Dragutin Repinc.



    How would you rate today's role, mission and the importance of the Army, the most numerous branch of the Armed Forces?

    The fundamental role of the Croatian Army in defending the sovereignty and territorial integrity of the Croatian is essentially not much has changed since its creation twenty years ago. Similarly, we have not changed any tasks arising from the fundamental role of the Army. However, the changing international environment, the emergence of new security challenges and threats, the entry of Croatia into the NATO and membership in the EU, as well as internal changes in the structure and organization of the Army led to the emergence of new tasks and obligations in the country and abroad. These tasks are always looking for new and greater knowledge and practical experience, and compel all members of the Army to lifelong education, civilian education, institutional military education and training, and Self-emancipation to be a better, more skilled and more prepared than they were yesterday.

    Members of the Army today are most numerous in international missions and operations in which the best way to promote our armed forces and is often said to be the best "ambassadors" of our country ...

    It is understandable that members of the Army's most common in international military operations and missions, not only because they belong to the most numerous branch but rather due to the operational environment in which the predominant land operations, such as the ISAF operation in Afghanistan. I always tell our members who go to international operations and missions that have to be soldiers and diplomats. As the soldiers must be professional in every sense of the word, especially in relation to their assigned missions and tasks, adhering to the prescribed code of conduct of soldiers and international law of war and rules of action. As diplomats must first have a human relationship with the local civilian population, while respecting the ethical and moral norms and local culture, religion and customs. Previous work of our members and the many compliments that are coming from all sides confirm that our soldiers behaving right and we are proud to carry and promote Croatian uniforms and a Croatian flag in a very complex and demanding environments in which they live and work in international environment.

    I carry themselves rich military experience as commander of the UN mission in India and Pakistan? How you present on duty to help you gain that experience?

    I sincerely believe that all experience is good, even the negative. Nowadays, when I think about my two years working in the UNMOGIP's hard for me to remember the negative experiences. It was challenging, and sometimes fairly dangerous, but work with members of the UN on all continents throughout the world, especially with the commanders and members of two very powerful army with nuclear potential, certainly left a lasting impression in my career. I think I've become calmer and more deliberate than I was before in dealing with people which is really important in an organization that is burdened by problems and human destinies.

    Is the current organization of the Army in accordance with the standards of modern armies of the world and expect to be any changes with respect to that process of transformation and adaptation in fact, never ceases?

    It's hard to talk about some of the prescribed standards of modern armies, because the question of organization, structure and organization is always a national decision. There are definitely experiences that can and should be used, but the transcription of some models and forms, and their transfer from one environment to our national environment can often lead to more problems than benefits. We are at this moment we are in the process of integration of our forces declared to NATO structure and the process will end up in a few years, however, the transformation process will never stop. He may not be visible to the outside through a change of structure, but is durable in relation to changes in the system of training and education, doctrine, personnel management, logistics support, equipping and modernization, and other areas. Change in the Army will certainly be as determined and findings from the Strategic Defence Review and guidance arising from this document. We are currently working on a proposal for a new structure and organization of the Army, where the largest changes occur in the Command Training and Doctrine Command, which will in its dual role as the operational and functional commands in the future have only one and it's functional command, which only deals with the training of active , conscript and reserve components and the development of doctrinal manuals for the Army. Normally that these changes reflect the overall structure of the Army, including the Guards Brigade.

    How to equip soldiers advanced with the Army of equipment and weapons of Croatian manufacturers of military equipment?

    In this area made great progress and now we can say that we have with Croatian Croatian soldiers' uniforms, rifles and pistols Croatian, Croatian Croatian helmet and boots. What is particularly happy that these products are of superior quality at the global level, recognizable, and more wanted in the international market for defense equipment. Double-sided interest Armed Forces and our manufacturers to the existing range of equipment developed and expanded and that our members even more equipment equipment from domestic production.

    When it comes to jurišnoj VHS rifle in its development and testing of the participants and members of the Army. What are their feedback from the field on its quality?

    Already a working model of a rifle that was examined in our units is rated very highly in comparison to a similar assault rifles from other manufacturers. Certain changes in the tactical-technical requirements and necessary modifications eliminated some minor problems, such as the ability to use a rifle left-handed shooters. Now the rifle accessory optic scopes, made podcijevni launcher 40 mm and some other minor modifications, after which we can say that we have extremely reliable and accurate rifle, made from the finest materials and premium technology. At that moment, members of our company on Golan equipped rifle VHS and now we have no objections to the gun. Several pieces in Afghanistan in order to conduct tests in a different battle, soil and weather conditions from the area do not have any negative findings about the behavior of a rifle.

    How is the equipping of the Army Patria armored vehicles and their use in the Army brigade and training?

    So far, the Army received 64 BOV Patria and stored them in a barracks in Petrinja, in the next few days we will take another 10 vehicles. These vehicles are accepted only for safekeeping, and not on operational use because it is a base vehicle with no built-in basic equipment. Members of the Guards Motorised Brigade who have completed training for instructors, mechanics and drivers will soon begin conditioning and maintenance. Thus, the 17 fully equipped combat vehicles with station 12.7 mm should be phased into a brigade to March this year, and are intended to equip the company for motorized EUBG II/2012. The Company would have to spend training and national certification in March, while in April the command of a platoon and company will be referred to the practice in Germany. In addition, it is estimated that one water company, and participate in MVV Immediate response in late May and early June, before the EUBG enters stand-by period of first July Given the brevity of time, and complexity of training, we asked that we be allocated for the training base vehicles that will return as soon as you arrive equipped vehicles EUBG.

    How do you assess the infrastructural development of the military training grounds of the Army?

    Military installation "Eugen Kvaternik" Slunj and "Gašinci" in all our documents identified as priorities in the development of accommodation and training infrastructure. Development of the polygon was not always sufficiently aligned so that the developed parallel obučna infrastructure in all polygons, which is not always rational. What we would certainly like to improve the condition and capacity of accommodation facilities in the area "Gašinci" because we are there permanently deployed two battalions of armored mechanized brigade. At the test site Slunj the situation is better. Much has been made to the arrangement of automatic shooting and the shooting of situational and instinctive shooting at Slunj has built a new training ground for fighting in a populated area and training ground for the fight against mines and improvised explosive devices. However, much work awaits us in the further development of infrastructure on military training grounds.

    How do you rate the standard of accommodation and working conditions of soldiers of the Army and Planning barracks in which they reside members of the Army?

    Also in this section are made a certain progress, but the state still can and must do better. Due to lack of funds for maintenance of investments in the past few years, construction of residential buildings stopped in two modern facilities in the barracks, "Colonel Predrag Matanović" Petrinja. Most residential buildings meet the basic requirements for accommodation and work of soldiers. In most of the barracks decorated gym, we are especially proud of the six fonolaboratorija for learning English. On the other hand, some barracks, as in Dugo Selo, were declared to be unpromising even though the soldiers in them staying, no major investments in improving living conditions. We hope to a new Armed Forces Long Term Development Plan and redefine the perspective of military facilities and begin a more systematic and more investment in new infrastructure objects.

    CAF is a constant process of adjustment and reform. When it comes to human resources, how will it affect the officer, NCO and military personnel of the Army, the structure of the frame and the number of people?

    Those who are capable and hardworking, I do not have to be afraid of their status, regardless of how it will look like the future structure of the Army. Us at this moment there are more than a thousand people compared to the current DPR which means that there is room for everyone. However, the system can not be sealed because they are older and those who do not adapt to new conditions and standards of professional development of officers, NCOs and soldiers must go slowly to make room for the admission of new, young officers and soldiers. Everyone should be aware and ready to invest in yourself to be ready for new challenges.

    How is the process of training and assessment of forces for the NRF, and how to EUBG?

    In 2013. year the Army sends the NRF platoon for decontamination and military police platoon. Both the water went NATO affirmation at the end of last year and are willing to participate in the NRF. What we must do this year is a reassessment of these lines because the evaluation of the NFR is different and more demanding and complex than the assessment of the declared NATO troops. Given the results of NATO and praised the team from Madrid who conducted the recognition of lines, I am sure that the affirmation of the NRF proceed without major problems. About EUBG I spoke before, noting that they made the final list of staff, developed and approved plans and training exercises in Croatia and abroad, so in this section do not expect major problems.

    hrvatskivojnik

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