Reply With QuoteHaving a squadron of Tornado's would be nice though if that ever happens. That is one great jet!
I'm with Ivi on this one, and I am certain that no fighter sharing will ever happen. Nothing like that has happened in modern military history, because tanks, combat aircraft and warships are far too valuable strategic defense resources to be shared. As I said, it would be like the US sharing its nuclear launch codes with Russia or EU.
Regarding the patrol ships, I think I read somewhere that building of the first four will finally start in a few months. MEKO frigates, which are most likely to be ordered to update the Navy, might be built in our shipyards, but its also very likely they'll be built in Germany.
Yutarnji is just that, YU party newspaper and anything in there is about as likely as me snapping my fingers and having a Raptor squadron appear at Pleso out of thin air, complete with Croatian markings. Having said that, only Tornado ADV would make sense, but having a fighter that requires two flight crew is unnecesary. Croatia never had an aircrew position remotely similar to WSO, so transitioning would be made needlessly compicated.
Having a squadron of Tornado's would be nice though if that ever happens. That is one great jet!
Last edited by Ivi; 10-25-2010 at 03:30 PM.
No, it's about incompetence. Same incompetence that caused HRZ to be in this state. How come that money was not a problem in 1990s when Pilatus and Bell were bought? And country was in much deeper ****e than today...Originally Posted by Il-28
And whose shipyard has built Kralj class gunships?Yes, quality civilian ships, tankers, transport ships and so on. Not military ships.
Plus Lybian patrol ship program?
Croatia is hardly a blank page when it comes to navy shipbuilding...
I mean, we're sometime pathetic on many levels but still we don't have to sell ourselves short.
Absolutely true. They mention Cerklje as joint airbase for CroSloAFYutarnji is just that, YU party newspaper and anything in there is about as likely as me snapping my fingers and having a Raptor squadron appear at Pleso out of thin air, complete with Croatian markings.
Overpriced toilet paper with photos, that is JL basically.
Quote, except that you have to mention Canadair and Fire Bosses also, acquired on extra budget and maybe also Mil 171, so the real decline happened in the last two years with the sharp cut in defence expenditure ad the cancellation of some programs, but ought to say, more in the army than in other two services.No, it's about incompetence. Same incompetence that caused HRZ to be in this state. How come that money was not a problem in 1990s when Pilatus and Bell were bought? And country was in much deeper ****e than today...
And whose shipyard has built Kralj class gunships?
Plus Lybian patrol ship program?
Croatia is hardly a blank page when it comes to navy shipbuilding...I mean, we're sometime pathetic on many levels but still we don't have to sell ourselves short.
Absolutely true. They mention Cerklje as joint airbase for CroSloAF
Overpriced toilet paper with photos, that is JL basically.
Just one more: everything, everything ,everything but not Tornado ADV, it is not a fighter only a bomb truck with an (inefficent and often broken) anti-air radar on it.
Other Tornado are very good bombers, nothing more, nothing less.
Well, ADV is lesser of two evils. IDS variant coulddn't hold its own against a MiG-21, let alone anything else. Tornados and Harriers are definetely the worst ideas on fighter procurement.
And Cerklje ob Krki is a support and maintenance facility for NATO aircraft, neither designed nor intended to host a fighter squadron after being rebuilt.
Mrca Tornado, contrary to his denomination(Multi Role Combat Aircraft) was a very specialistic combat aircraft, a so called deep striker, similar to its swept wing twins F-111 and Su-24, only Uk introduced an Air Defence Variant, but it was an operative failure, always troubled with problem with avionics.
I have found the hourly cost of various AMI airplanes during the eighties, I think it would explain better than any speeches what was the main problem of Tornado and what is really the cost of choosing, then and now, the wrong fighters.
In £ (italian pound):
G-91Y: £ 6.135.000
F-104:£ 5.900.000
MB-339A:£ 2.800.000
G-91T: £ 2.650.000
Atlantic: £ 18.741.000
C-130H: £ 8.710.000
G-222: £ 6.340.000
Tornado: 34 millions and 300.000 italian lire
Cost of a Tornado Ids was about 30 billions £, so after 4/5 years the flying cost was superior to the aircraft value.
Keeping MiG-21 look now a little better?
UDAR 10 (Strike 10)
Tornado's are old (even if they were modernized), difficult to maintain, expensive to flight... Better buy a batch of new Gripen or modernized F-16 or Mig 29. Eurofighters and Rafale are very expensive for their capabilities.
Not that I am against all that, but I think nothing will ever happen, that's just one of the stupiditys our PM is spreading. He is known for telling things way out of his league before consulting anyone, and also Slonvenian president and ministry of defence are shocked by such ideas.Time will tell...
Money was not a problem because our defense budget was much bigger. If I'm not mistaken, turboprops were ordered somewhere in 1996 (or even earlier) and delivered in 1997. That was the time when we cared much more abut military (rightfully) than about our corrupted government and f**ked up economy. Plus, squadron of fighter planes or 4 new frigates cost much more than turboprop planes or Bell helicopters.
Croatian, but when it was in Yugoslavia. It's a YU design, quite old one.
And we've built RTOP Dmitar Zvonimir for almost 8 friggin' years.
It was built by Adria-Mar, private company. And what's so special about them? It's a patrol boat based on old design of Yugoslav patrol boats.
I never said that. But I think we're way overestimating our capabilities. We can build quality ships, that's for sure. But to do that we need money, plenty of it. We had problems starting our ship program when there was no recesion, we definitely won't start it now. And the way our MoD functions (someone mentioned incompetence), I bet we won't see any fully functional frigate that is Croatian made for the next 10 years. At least.
From this point of view those French GoWind corvettes looked like a bloody good deal.
This is the dilemna which would occurs in the next years for small countries : maintaining their own defence industry at a prohibitive cost or buying foreign defense products which are cheaper but depends on them for support, especialy for spare parts. It means that you could only fight wars that your supplier allows you to fight.From this point of view those French GoWind corvettes looked like a bloody good deal.
Nordic Battlegroup mistery solved:
Two Croatian Air Force helicopters, a Mi-171Sh and a Mi-8MTV-1 were dispatched today, along with 21 Croatian airmen, to Sweden for Nordic BG Exercise Joint Action. The exercise will be held from November 8 to November 17. Croatian helicopters will serve in MEDEVAC and transport roles.
Croatia will NOT be joining Nordic BG, but will acquire experiance needed for a new Battlegroup that will be formed sometime in 2012 with Germany as the leading nation. Croatia will participate with 250 soldiers. Other nations will be Austria, Macedonia, Ireland and Czech Republic.
Defense budget was bigger even though country was in much worse shape than today, with one third of territory just recently liberated and infrastructure destroyed on may points. One can only regret that Israeli deal with MiG 21s was not done before the power shift in 2000. when all started to go downwards as defense is concerned.
Just that we are capable of building our own IPVs. Some experience is there.Croatian, but when it was in Yugoslavia. It's a YU design, quite old one.
And we've built RTOP Dmitar Zvonimir for almost 8 friggin' years.
It was built by Adria-Mar, private company. And what's so special about them? It's a patrol boat based on old design of Yugoslav patrol boats.
The OPV is another story. Never done before. Better to go shopping.
As for CroSloAF - the reaction of Tuerk was enough to tell that nothing will come out of it.
[QUOTE=SATNIK;5265510]UDAR 10 (Strike 10)
satnice look like we have been very close to each other last 3 week
@SATNIK
Nice pics. Didn't know we still operated LOV's. What about the T-55's ?. Were they all scraped?
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