Auto/semi-auto/3-round bursts?
Can someone explain to me what is the exact different between fully-auto/semi-auto/3-round burst modes?
I thought I knew but I got confused after I read somewhere (maybe it was wrong) that the AK can basically empty out its magazine if you keep the trigger depressed while the M16 cant. Which set me thinking if M16s are inferior in firepower vis-a-vis AKs.
Can you also tell me what kind of fire types (auto/semi-auto/3-round) are the following guns:
AK-47
M16A2
M4A1
M4 Mod
SA80
Thanks.
OK: Assuming a selective fire weapon with these settings.............
Semi-auto - depress trigger, weapon fires a single round - BANG
Three round burst - depress trigger, weapon fires three rounds - BANG-BANG-BANG
Fully Auto - depress trigger, weapon continues to fire until either trigger is released or magazine is empty - BANG-BANG-BANG-BANG-BANG-BANG-BANG-BANGBANG-BANG-BANG-BANG-BANG-BANG-CLICK
SA80 is semi and auto only
AK-47 - Semi/Auto
M16A2 - Semi/3rb
M4A1 - Semi/Auto
M4 - Semi/3rb
SA80 - Semi/Auto
I've always wondered one thing about the burst mode.
Will the three shots be shot in every case, always, or depressing trigger quickly and releasing may just shoot one single bullet, or two?
i.e., will the weapon with a burst fire selection end its firing cycle no matter what, or there are exceptions?
When you fire a burst-fire weapon, its firing cycle is two/three/however many rounds - that is the way the mechanism works.Originally Posted by Solo
if you pull the trigger and then you release it quickly you can shoot just 1 or 2 rounds.
note: the 3 round burst on the M16A2 (and A4) doesn't reset!
Thanks to both of you gentlemen
you are welcome mate
when I said the 3rounds burst I mean that the trigger group does not reset when the trigger is released. If a soldier lets go of the trigger between the second and third round of the burst, for example, the next trigger pull would only result in a single shot.
HA. That I hadn't understood fully. Thanks for clarifying it mateyou are welcome mate
when I said the 3rounds burst I mean that the trigger group does not reset when the trigger is released. If a soldier lets go of the trigger between the second and third round of the burst, for example, the next trigger pull would only result in a single shot.
Thanks for the replies. More questions on my part....
So is the AK-47 superior in firepower (not talking about accuracy here) than the M16?
Mechanically, what is it that makes it possible for the AK-47 to have a fully auto? Is it more expensive to make a fully auto rifle than a 3-round burst?
Why do most armies in the world issue 3-round burst guns as standard issue and not fully-auto?
-Thanks
M16A2,M16A4 and M4 have the 3rounds burst but M16,M16A1,M16A3 and M4A1 have full auto.
3rounds burst was introduced after the Viet Nam war only to limit ammo wastage by troops.
btw a lot of european armies' assault rifles have both Burst and Full Auto (also Safe and Semiauto of course) firing mode in the same rifle.
As to Stoner's baby (M-16) being inferior to the AK in terms of firepower, the more heated debates will cover the choice of 5.56 for the M-16 versus the beefier 7.62 for the Kalash. The later M-16s (from what I've read) were switched to 3 round burst because of a whole lot of spray & pray in Vietnam, and something like 200,000 rounds expended for 1 VC or NVA KIA, I could be wrong. In terms of combat efficacy, controlled 3-round burst with a 20 inch barrel (another debate) in trained hands is definitely preferable to the relatively uncontrollable full auto the AK dishes out. Most armies see 3 rnd. burst as a more efficient alternative to full auto, and train their troops accordingly. And of course, 165 grains of .308 in the right hands can make a hell of an impact too.
In terms of laying down sheer lead, yes the AK is superior to the M16A2. I believe it's merely the trigger sear that makes the difference between automatic and burst. I'm not entirely sure exactly how it works, I'm not an armourer. A trigger sear is hardly an expensive or complex piece of metal, cost really isn't much of an issue.
Most armies DON'T issue 3rb burst weapons as standard. The US is the only major player to do this. Most other weapons are either semi/auto or have semi/burst/auto. The US believed that automatic fire was wasteful of ammunition, probably due to lessons learnt in Vietnam.
IMO, automatic fire is very useful in itself, mainly for clearing confined spaces, rooms and trenches. If you want burst, just train up soldiers on how to use automatic fire in short bursts, or invest in a rifle with a burst AND automatic option. Limiting weapons to burst or semi only is nothing new - the Commonwealth countries did it with the FAL (semi only), to prevent ammo wastage and taking heed of the fact you can't hit **** with a FAL on automatic, unless you're reeeeeeeeeeeally close.
1) Individual weapons are not meant to be the basis of firepower within a section/squad. A high rate of fire is provided by the section support weapon(s) such as the minimi or GPMG. Personal weapons (and by that I mean assault rifles like you have mentioned) are designed to be primarily used as accurate semi-auto weapons. The idea being that the support weapons keep up a high, suppressing rate of fire while rifles are used to accurately engage enemy troops, or likely enemy positions.
The AK is not, therefore, superior in firepower to the M16. Both are used with semi-auto (called repitition in the British army) most of the time. Automatic fire is only used when clearing trenches/bunkers on the 'fight through' or for anti ambush drills as both occasions require a higher rate of fire.
2) It is very simple to make a fully automatic weapon. The way a weapon works is that the first round is manually chambered by the action of cocking (or charging, if you are american) the rifle. The cocking handle pulls the bolt back and puts the return spring under tension. When the handle is released, the bolt goes forward and strips off a round from the magazine (which has its own spring pushing the rounds up). When the bolt goes back is also locks the hammer down ready to spring forward. When the trigger is pulled, the hammer is released and it strikes the firing pin in the centre of the bolt. This sets off the round and causes the bullet to shoot out of the weapon. The gases produced by the explotion are channeled back along a 'gas piston' which pushes the bolt back again, repeating the process of chambering a round and cocking the hammer back. When the weapon fires in repitition, a mechanical 'stopper' called a 'sear' drops into place to stop the hammer from striking the firing pin a second time. When the weapon is switched to automatic, this sear is held back out of the way and the cycle is allowed to continue unhindered, hence continuous or 'automatic' fire.
I don't know how a 3-round burst system works, but I imagine there is some sort of cam system or a series of 'sears' that stop the weapon after three cycles.
3) Most armies don't issue 3-round burst weapons. It is pretty much only the USA. There are bound to be some others but the majority of armies use repitition/automatic weapons. The reason why the US uses 3 round burst is because they found that all their soldiers wasted ammunition on automatic in Vietnam, so they resorted to introducing the 3 round burst instead of just re-enforcing the need for correct fire control discipline.
Hope that helps.
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