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Thread: No fighter jets for Philippines until 2011

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    Member Cygnus's Avatar
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    Unhappy No fighter jets for Philippines until 2011

    No fighter jets for Philippines until 2011

    MANILA (AFP) - The Philippines will only consider buying new military aircraft in 2011 when internal security problems were hopefully resolved, despite retiring the last of its fighter jets this year, an official said Thursday.

    "Our thrust now is to clear our internal security problems and when that is finished, then that's the time we move on to the acquisition of these high value items. The price of fighter planes is just too much," said Air Force commanding general Lieutenant General Jose Reyes.

    "If we buy it, then all of the resources of the armed forces will go there and we cannot afford that at this time. So for now we will make do with what we have, S211 trainer jets," Reyes said.

    "After 2011 we start planning for external defense. I pray that we'll be able to do it (acquire new fighter aircraft)," he said.

    Last month, the military decommissioned the last of its 40-year-old F-5 fighter jets, leaving the Italian-made S211 training aircraft to defend the country's skies.

    The S211 jets are being used to train Philippine fighter pilots and perform patrol and reconnaissance missions, Reyes said.

    The cash-strapped Philippine military has been focused on fighting communist insurgents across the Southeast Asian archipelago as well as Muslim separatists and Islamic militants in the south.

    http://www.brunei-online.com/bb/fri/nov25w5.htm


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    PAF admits no fighter jets to combat insurgents until 2011


    Friday, 11 25, 2005

    Despite the need to acquire new military aircraft to effectively pursue its war against communist rebels and other internal security threats, Philippine Air Force commanding general Lt. Gen. Jose Reyes Jr. yesterday said the cash-strapped Armed Forces of the Philippines (AFP) has no choice but to make do with the PAF's existing resources, including jet fighters, until 2011 in combating the insurgents.

    He admitted the country will have to make do without any air defense until 2011 when internal threats are hopefully addressed.

    “As of now, our thrust is to clear our internal security problems. Once we're finished, that's the time we move on to the acquisition of these high-value items,” Reyes told reporters in a chance interview in Camp Aguinaldo.

    “Fighter planes are very expensive. If you buy them, all of the resources of the military will be used up and we cannot afford that. At this time, we make do with what we have…the S2-11 trainers,” he said.

    But the lack of air defense may further put the lives of the patrolling airmen at risk.

    On Tuesday, three members of the Air Force were wounded in an encounter with communist rebels in Tiaong, Quezon.

    The Airmen, all from the 730th Combat Group of 710th Special Operations Wing (SPOW), were members of a team sent out to check reports on the presence of insurgents in Cabatang village.

    The SPOW team was patrolling along with police personnel when they encountered the undetermined number of heavily armed rebels.

    In October, the Air Force decommissioned the last of the 37 F-5 or “Freedom Fighter” jets that it received from the United States.

    Since then, the PAF has been making do with its five S2-11 trainer jets despite the aircraft's very limited fighter capability.

    The F-5 jets saw action against leftist and Muslim insurgents and rebel soldiers who staged a coup d'etat against former President Corazon Aquino in 1989.

    Air Force spokesman Lt. Col. Restituto Padilla said at present, they have 16 S2-11 jets in its inventory but only five are operational.

    The S2-11 jets are being used to train fighter pilots and perform patrol and reconnaissance missions.

    Earlier, Defense Secretary Avelino Cruz revealed they have set 2010 as target to eliminate all armed threats in the country that include guerrillas, Islamic militants and foreign terrorists.

    Should the target be met, Reyes said, planning would start on the acquisition of new fighter planes.

    He, however, would not say what aircraft models would be purchased.

    “By 2011, these types of aircraft, the F-16s and the F-18s will already be obsolete. That's why as of now, we have not done any planning on what types of jets to acquire after this internal security problem,” Reyes stressed.

    Though the Air Force is without fighter jets, he said, training for fighter pilots is continuing, even as he conceded that commercial airlines have attracted quite a number of military pilots lately.

    Meanwhile, Reyes ordered the spot promotion to the next higher grade of three airmen who were wounded in an encounter in Tiaong, Quezon.

    The PAF chief personally awarded the airmen with the Wounded Personnel Medal on Thursday at the Armed Forces Medical Center in recognition of their bravery despite injuries sustained from the communist rebels.

    The airmen were identified as A1C Constantino Baral, A1C Rodel Bongar and A2C Mario Garcia who were immediately airlifted to AFP Medical Center in Quezon City for treatment.

    An undetermined number of insurgents were also wounded during the skirmish. Amita O. Legaspi, PNA and AFP

    http://www.tribune.net.ph/headlines/20051125.hed06.html

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    Sad but practical... In the early 90's the GRP was deciding on which plane buy. The AFP Modernization calls for 36 MRF and 36 ground attack aircrafts... The choices for the PAF were F-16A/B's USAF surplus [used during the first Gulf War], Kfir C.7/2000 [some say the prices were insanely low US$ 5-7 Million a plane], Mig-29s. Offers for brand new jets came in the form of the F-16C/D [I think it was Block 30 during these times], F/A-18A/B, Grippen and Mig-29.

    The Air Force was split with the F-16s and Grippen. I'm not sure if the winner for the PAF Modernization was announced, but according to some it was the Grippen that was the choice. Then problem with the economy came and prolonged the arrival of the plane... Not it will just have to wait for another 6 years....


    Philippine airforce Brigadier General Manuel Natividad (R) walks past a F-5 fighter plane during a decommissioning ceremony at an airforce base, north of Manila, October 1, 2005. The Philippines, a close ally of the United States, has one of the worst equipped armed forces in the Asia-Pacific region, patrolling the nation's 7,000 islands with World War Two navy boats and aircraft dating from the Vietnam War. The Philippines has been virtually defenceless after scrapping its fleet of F-5 planes due to lack of funds and shift of its defence policy to internal security, losing its pool of experienced pilots to commercial airliners. Picture taken October 1, 2005. To match feature Security-Philippines-Pilots. *******/Romeo Ranoco




    Last edited by Cygnus; 11-28-2005 at 01:15 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cygnus
    The Air Force was split with the F-16s and Grippen. I'm not sure if the winner for the PAF Modernization was announced, but according to some it was the Grippen that was the choice. Then problem with the economy came and prolonged the arrival of the plane... Not it will just have to wait for another 6 years....
    Sweden is downsizing the Air Force now and will only have 80 Gripens, however 204 were ordered which leaves quite a bit for the "surplus" market. 2011 (which is after all only five years away) the Gripens will still be state of the art, and possibly Sweden could get rid of some surplus then.

    How many is Philippines interested in buying?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kekkonen
    Sweden is downsizing the Air Force now and will only have 80 Gripens, however 204 were ordered which leaves quite a bit for the "surplus" market. 2011 (which is after all only five years away) the Gripens will still be state of the art, and possibly Sweden could get rid of some surplus then.

    How many is Philippines interested in buying?
    Two squadrons of 18 planes... 36 in all... They mentioned in the papers [some time in the 90's] that 18 will be bought with an option for another 18. I guess they probalby want to make sure that it is the right plane they got. If it is not, the second batch might be the second placer in the evaluation...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cygnus
    Two squadrons of 18 planes... 36 in all... They mentioned in the papers [some time in the 90's] that 18 will be bought with an option for another 18. I guess they probalby want to make sure that it is the right plane they got. If it is not, the second batch might be the second placer in the evaluation...
    As for the surplus Gripens they are still manufactured, the last one of those 204 will be delivered 2007. The Swedish Air Force will of course keep the newest ones but if Philippines buys of the surplus stock they will still be able to fly them for atleast 30 years, if not more. I can imagine that especially the JAS 39A/B which is not as NATO-combatible as the C/D can be bought somewhat on a discounted price.

    But of course the Americans will as usual dump the price of theirs by political reasons and sell even cheaper, so maybe Philippines will go for surplus F-16's after all.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kekkonen
    As for the surplus Gripens they are still manufactured, the last one of those 204 will be delivered 2007. The Swedish Air Force will of course keep the newest ones but if Philippines buys of the surplus stock they will still be able to fly them for atleast 30 years, if not more. I can imagine that especially the JAS 39A/B which is not as NATO-combatible as the C/D can be bought somewhat on a discounted price.

    But of course the Americans will as usual dump the price of theirs by political reasons and sell even cheaper, so maybe Philippines will go for surplus F-16's after all.
    If they do hope, its upgraded to that of Israeli's... F-16I Falcon in Philippine AF colors [grey camo, pattern on my F-8P Avatar], that is great!

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    Senior Member Warlord's Avatar
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    Sometimes, laughter is the best medicine. PAF will never be able to buy any planes. The economy wont support it. Neither will the leftists members of the government and the corruption of any administration that will step into the Philippine politics.

    We have to admit. The military is way down the governments priority. They've even started selling out my beloved island.

    It's a damn shame that our present airforce is all air.

    I would not go for the F16 though. A multi-role fighter bomber is better for us. Our problems are more on insurgencies and coup de etat. And something cheap! Right now, quantity is better than quality.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Warlord
    Our problems are more on insurgencies and coup de etat. And something cheap! Right now, quantity is better than quality.
    Wouldn't something slow be good for that? Like the Brazilian ALX. The ALX can be armed with guided air-to-air and air-to-ground missiles and bombs. The Brazilians also use them for patrolling the Amazonas, and as course as a trainer, so for a small price a lots of tasks can be filled.




    ALX armed with MAA-1, which has a range of 10 km

    WEAPONS

    The aircraft is fitted with two central mission computers. The integrated weapon system includes software for weapon aiming, weapon management, mission planning and mission rehearsal. On-board recording is used for post mission analysis. The aircraft has five hardpoints for carrying weapons, and is capable of carrying a maximum external load of 1,500kg. The aircraft is armed with two wing mounted 12.7 mm machine guns with a rate of fire of 1,100 rounds per minute and is capable of carrying general purpose bombs and guided air-to-air and air-to-ground missiles. Brazilian AF aircraft will be armed with the MAA-1 Piranha short-range infrared guided air-to-air missile from Orbita.

    The two seat AT-29 is fitted with a forward-looking infrared AN/AAQ-22 SAFIRE turret on the underside of the fuselage. The SAFIRE thermal imaging system supplied by FLIR Systems is for targeting, navigation and target tracking. The system allows the aircraft to carry out night surveillance and attack missions.

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    Without any modern military aircraft, they will be hard pressed to provide a credible military response to a move against the Spratleys by China.

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    what kind of response would they put up regardless if they had fighters or not? Phillipines vs. CHina? not too hard to figure that one out.

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    Plenty of Filipino-Chinese in the Philippines. Some don't even speak the local language. Some whos loyalties are questionable. Aside from this, they own most of the industry and commerce in the country. I guess it's not wrong to say that they own 80% of it. That in itself is represents a problem. Plus the lack of patriotism/nationalism in the country infected with leftist socialist type of education. Well. It's a formula.

    Let the Chinese line up it's battleships in Manila Bay, the whole country will surrender in 12 hours.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Warlord
    Plenty of Filipino-Chinese in the Philippines. Some don't even speak the local language. Some whos loyalties are questionable. Aside from this, they own most of the industry and commerce in the country. I guess it's not wrong to say that they own 80% of it. That in itself is represents a problem. Plus the lack of patriotism/nationalism in the country infected with leftist socialist type of education. Well. It's a formula.

    Let the Chinese line up it's battleships in Manila Bay, the whole country will surrender in 12 hours.
    12 seconds... Sad but true...

    Alot of Chinese merchants don't speak the native language or english [second language of RP], I won't be surprised if 90% of thier businesses are registered and paying the taxes correctly.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kekkonen
    Wouldn't something slow be good for that? Like the Brazilian ALX. The ALX can be armed with guided air-to-air and air-to-ground missiles and bombs. The Brazilians also use them for patrolling the Amazonas, and as course as a trainer, so for a small price a lots of tasks can be filled.




    ALX armed with MAA-1, which has a range of 10 km
    As mentioned earlier, the PAF intends to buy 36 MRFs, and 36 ground attack aircrafts. The 15th Strike Wing operates OV-10s and had T-28s, I'm sure the ALX will just be right for the 15th stike wing. I just hope the other squadron for the 15th will be the SLUF [A-7 Corsair II], the best bomb truck there is [well atleast for me]. Lucky Thais..

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    Lack of patriotism/nationalism is a HUGE problem in the Philippines. 9 times out of 10 if you ask someone there what their biggest wish or dream is for the future, it would be the ability to leave the Philippines and live in another country.
    It's depressing, really.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beppo
    Lack of patriotism/nationalism is a HUGE problem in the Philippines. 9 times out of 10 if you ask someone there what their biggest wish or dream is for the future, it would be the ability to leave the Philippines and live in another country.
    It's depressing, really.
    True... 1 out of 10 Philippines live and work abroad...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kekkonen
    Wouldn't something slow be good for that? Like the Brazilian ALX. The ALX can be armed with guided air-to-air and air-to-ground missiles and bombs. The Brazilians also use them for patrolling the Amazonas, and as course as a trainer, so for a small price a lots of tasks can be filled.




    ALX armed with MAA-1, which has a range of 10 km
    Exactly the right sort of A/C to fight insurgency (along with helos). Not an F-16 or JAS-39 or any other fast mover. It may not be glamorous, but it may just be affordable for the PAF.
    Last edited by ENSIGN FOREVER; 11-28-2005 at 11:44 AM.

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