South African National Defence Force

[muede]

After a lot of mucking about it's here.

Sunday program showing a UK doco on the SA Police Special Task Force about 10 years ago now, I missed the first few minutes but the rest is there so enjoy.

http://rapidshare.de/files/23375386/...e_STF.wmv.html

Yes it's huge, because it goes for half an hour and the quality/audio loss on anything lower was unacceptable.

Anyu chance of you making a torront or something of the "original" the wmv coding effect at places quite much tear on the picture.

Anyways it was awsome, thanks.

[reccelite]

Armoured truck? That's an infantry fighting vehicle my boy. How many trucks carry 20mm cannon? There also variants with a 90mm gun (in the same turret as an Eland), ZT3 anti-tank missiles, an 81mm mortar carrier, a turreted 60mm mortar, and a command vehicle. Ratel-90s in Angola successfully took on T-55 tanks- how many trucks can do that?

Armoured regiments-SA Army
Full Time Force:
1 SA Tank Regiment (Olifant MBT)
1 Special Service Battalion (Rooikat recce vehicle)
Part Time Force:
Natal Mounted Rifles (Olifant)
Umvoti Mounted Rifles (Rooikat)
Light Horse Regiment (Rooikat)
Pretoria Regiment (Olifant)
Regiment Mooirivier (Rooikat)

Regiment President Steyn (Olifant)
Regiment Oranjerivier (Rooikat)

It must be said that the part-time regiments are nowhere near full strength in troops or vehicles. Each could maybe put a squadron in the field. All units, both full and part-time, are under severe financial restraints regarding maintenance and training.

Hi, I hope the weekend was good for all of you.....

First Thanks a lot for the information regarding the armoured formations in the SA Army.

Second, the Ratel is little bite more than an armored truck, you only have to see the configuration of the vehicle. Even I read in a Magazine, a Spanish one, where the y had an interview whit a South African soldier and he said the same.He said the vehicle needed to be replaced because it was an Armoured truck and doesn't fit with the new operational requirements.

Third, How many Ratels are in service??? in what units???

Fourth, What is the bosbok??? Has somone a picture of this vehicle??

Thanks in advance

Best regards

reccelite



Best regards

[BiZ]

Anyu chance of you making a torront or something of the "original" the wmv coding effect at places quite much tear on the picture.

Anyways it was awsome, thanks.

Mate it took me 50 years to work out how to rip the bugger, let alone turn it into a .mpeg and then figure out how to upload it. i have no idea what bit torrents are except that everyone here loves them. So there's zero chance I'd be able to figure it out and upload it as one or however it's done.

Keep in mind the tape as I said is about 10 years old so the quality was always going to be a little dodgy.

[playtym]

Fourth, What is the bosbok??? Has somone a picture of this vehicle??

AM.3C Bosbok

[BeetleCrusher]

There was also a mine protected bakkie (truck) called a bosbok as I recall...

AM.3C Bosbok

[Hellfish]

Third, How many Ratels are in service??? in what units???

IIRC some 1200 Ratels were built. Some were sold to Jordan and Morrocco, a handful were lost in combat. I don't know which SANDF units remain from the SADF but I remember 61 and 62 Mech had good numbers as well as a couple of the SAI battalions and 32 Bn. I don't remember which PTF units had them.

[baboon6]

Since 61 Mech was disbanded last year, I would assume that 1 SA Infantry Battalion is the only full-time force unit using Ratels, since it is designated a mechanised unit. The other FTF infantry battalions are parachute(1), motorised (3) and light (9).

As for the part-time force, the only units I am sure are mechanised are the Transvaal Scottish, Cape Town Highlanders and Witwatersrand Rifles. Some others of the 17 reserve infantry units may be too. The comments I made regarding PTF armoured regiments apply equally to infantry battalions.

[playtym]

Since 61 Mech was disbanded last year, I would assume that 1 SA Infantry Battalion is the only full-time force unit using Ratels, since it is designated a mechanised unit. The other FTF infantry battalions are parachute(1), motorised (3) and light (9).

As for the part-time force, the only units I am sure are mechanised are the Transvaal Scottish, Cape Town Highlanders and Witwatersrand Rifles. Some others of the 17 reserve infantry units may be too. The comments I made regarding PTF armoured regiments apply equally to infantry battalions.

I know that 8 SAI was converted to a mechanised unit in 1989. I can't confirm whether they are still mechanised though, or what other full-time units, other than 1 SAI, are mechanised.

According to the IPMS SA website 4 SAI was also mechanised. See this link http://newsite.ipmssa.za.org/content/view/92/28/1/1/

The June 2004 SA Soldier magazine had an article about Regiment de la Rey.

Regiment de la Rey, named after General Koos de la Rey, is a traditional regiment that was established in 1934. The Unit has a magnificent history. It is one of only six mechanised units in the SANDF (Reserve Force).

So, according to the SA Soldier magazine there should be six mechanised reserve units including Regiment de la Rey.

I make the list so far to be:
1. Regiment de la Rey (confirmed by SA Soldier magazine)
2. Durban Light Infantry (my citizen force unit)
3. Transvaal Scottish (as per Baboon6 - and a Scotsman I work with - I've just asked him as this was his citizen force unit)
4. Cape Town Highlanders (as per Baboon6)
5. Witwatersrand Rifles (as per Baboon6)

Anyone got any idea who the sixth mechanised reserve unit is, or what other, if any, full-time mechanised units there are?

[Hellfish]

I was under the impression that all the "Regiment XXX" units were armored/cavalry type units, not infantry. It's possible that SA Soldier magazine meant mechanized as in they had vehicles as opposed to meaning mechanized infantry?

[playtym]

I'm not sure about that XXX thing, but the article is basically about members going on courses at 1 SAI - Mechanised Orientation Course, A Driver's Course and Gunnery and Signal Operator's Course.

All I can tell from that though is that they're training drivers and gunners for Ratels.

[baboon6]

I was under the impression that all the "Regiment XXX" units were armored/cavalry type units, not infantry. It's possible that SA Soldier magazine meant mechanized as in they had vehicles as opposed to meaning mechanized infantry?

You're wrong. They would have said "armoured" in that case. It simply means that the unit (Regiment De la Rey for example) was originally an Afrikaans-oriented Citizen Force regiment, most of which were infantry. An English-speaking unit would have the word "Regiment" (if it was part of the unit's title) after the name. There are/were exceptions to this rule. My grandfather was in Regiment de la Rey in WW2. They were combined with the Witwatersrand Rifles to form an infantry battalion which served with the 6th SA Armoured Division in Italy. The unit was then known as WR/DLR or "Wits De la Rey".

Here is the orbat for 1940:

http://home.adelphia.net/~dryan67/orders/sa40.html

Additional Afrikaans-oriented CF units were formed after WW2, some of which have been disbanded or amalgamated since. Some units names have changed since then. Other units have changed roles.

playtym, according to that link of yours 4SAI became motorised infantry in 1997, which would leave 1SAI as the only full-time mechanised infantry.

[Hellfish]

Ah, thanks for the clarification.

[Dark Avenger]

AM.3C Bosbok

AFAIK the Bosbok could carry weapons, while its stablemate the Kudu was a liaison aircraft with a more capacious fuselage. Any pics of an armed Bosbok around?

[playtym]

playtym, according to that link of yours 4SAI became motorised infantry in 1997, which would leave 1SAI as the only full-time mechanised infantry.

Well spotted. I didn't take the time to read the whole thing earlier.

Do you know if 8 SAI has also reverted back to motorised infantry or if they're still mechanised?

[baboon6]

According to a PDF I have of the Defence Review 1998, 8 SAI were motorised, the only mechanised units were 61 Mech and 1 SAI.

Full listing SA Infantry Formation (Full Time force)-
61 Mech Inf Bn Group (gone?)
1 SAI Bn - Tempe
4 SAI Bn - Middelburg
6 SAI Bn - Grahamstown
5 SAI Bn - Ladysmith
7 SAI Bn - Phalaborwa
8 SAI Bn - Upington
9 SAI Bn - Eeersterivier
10 SAI Bn - Mmabatho
14 SAI Bn - Umtata
115 SAI Bn - Wonderboom/Wallmanstad
116 SAI Bn - Messina
118 SAI Bn - Ellisras
121 SAI Bn- Mtubatuba

I'm not sure if this is 100% accurate, it is based on that Defence Review, some issues of SA Soldier, and other stuff on the net. 3 SAI are not listed because they are now the army's basic training unit for all non-leader group personnel (leader group does basics at the SA Army Gymnasium). I've not listed the Parabats either. 61 Mech apparently was disbanded last year, 12 SAI (specialist infantry-motorcycles, horses, dog handlers, trackers) went a while back too. 1 SAI are mech infantry, the rest light or motorised.

According to the 2005/2008 Defence Strategic Plan, the infantry (Regular Force- new terminology) is to have 2 (?) mech, 10 light and 3 motorised battalions, with the Reserve Force having 6 mech, 10 light and 8 motorised. There are 1 full-time and 2 part-time parachute battalions, plus a pathfinder platoon.

Why such a large full-time infantry component? To me 6 properly-trained, properly-manned battalions would make a lot more sense than 14/15.