Thread: Yum Kippur War

  1. #3061
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    israel
    Posts
    16

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by shelata View Post
    In Suez at least 80 IDF troops were killed. Eg Troops from the 19th brigade were waiting for the invaders in strategic points. Ambushes were set to meet the Paratroopers & the Armed brigades 460th / 217th. While both brigades retreated panic-ally after grave losses out from the city, a small group from the remaining paratrooper unit managed to occupy Al Arbeen police station. Later at dawn they managed to flee from the city.
    Gutman, try to visit Suez someday. It is now a new city but IDF destroyed tanks are still kept in some squares to mark the city brave battle.
    my comander was in suez three years ago,but for some reson he was not allowd to get into the police station.
    i dont have to visit suez to see the israelie destroid tanks' i still remember them/
    but remember one simple fect: we ( israel) started the war at the lawest point that could be. and we were stoped by the u.s and by u.s.s.r 100 k"m from cairo, the way to cairo was free of eg. army.
    i want to tell you that there were many brave eg. soldiers.
    i belive that you know some facts about the yk war but i think that a part of your knowledg is incoret.
    have a good evening and live peacfully.

  2. #3062
    Banned user
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Switzerland
    Posts
    383

    Default

    So the point is, Egyptian militias fought better then the regular Army? Looking at performance of militias vs Army in previous centuries I call mega BS. Brave is not equal to trained.

  3. #3063
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    israel
    Posts
    16

    Default

    the eg soldiers at that time were traind beter then in 67 or 56 or 48. but not enough to win the war/
    the fact is that as i said before. only the us and ussr could stop the idf from geting to cairo.
    did you personaly serve in army so you despies braveness?

  4. #3064
    Senior Member Camera's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    France
    Age
    55
    Posts
    14,811

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by NPFF View Post
    So the point is, Egyptian militias fought better then the regular Army? Looking at performance of militias vs Army in previous centuries I call mega BS. Brave is not equal to trained.
    A friend of mine was involved in the first investigation of the battle of Suez because he was in the unit charged to locate the bodies of the dead IDF soldiers that were left behind in the city. His unit worked on this in collaboration with the UN's observers and the representatives of the Egyptian armed forces.
    It's clear Egypt glorified the militiamen in order to create a myth of citizens defending their city. But the city was not inhabited since the War of Attrition and according to my friend the role of the militia was secondary. The main fighting force was formed by the commandos of the 3rd Army. My friend says, some militiamen were given by the soldiers trapped baskets filled with hand grenades and they threw them on the IDF vehicles and the soldiers stucked there from the high floors of the surrounding buildings.

  5. #3065
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    israel
    Posts
    16

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by NPFF View Post
    So the point is, Egyptian militias fought better then the regular Army? Looking at performance of militias vs Army in previous centuries I call mega
    BS. Brave is not equal to trained.
    i did not see any militis but only well armed soldiers

    i took part during all the war from baluza to suez and even close to port said we were planing to get there:
    i did not see any eg militias' only the army and the eg commando at budappest and some other places.
    Last edited by gutman76; 12-13-2011 at 03:46 PM.

  6. #3066
    Suspended for infractions
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Port Saeid- EGYPT
    Posts
    1,404

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by gutman76 View Post
    the eg soldiers at that time were traind beter then in 67 or 56 or 48. but not enough to win the war/
    the fact is that as i said before. only the us and ussr could stop the idf from geting to cairo.
    did you personaly serve in army so you despies braveness?
    Do you believe really that IDF could have continued the fighting after the defeat in Suez & the defeat of Sharon Div at the south of Ismaeyly??
    What would IDF fulfill from the fighting continuation !! Again remember, Sharon Div failed in his try to surround the 2nd army & Adan div failed to occupy Suez . I believe you shared in the War so refrain from repeating rumors. By no mean, IDF exhausted troops were in shape to advance to the west. The Eg fourth armed Div was applying a solid block in front of Adan & Kalman Div.
    To answer yr question, I have served in the army.

  7. #3067
    Suspended for infractions
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Port Saeid- EGYPT
    Posts
    1,404

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by gutman76 View Post
    i did not see any militis but only well armed soldiers

    i took part during all the war from baluza to suez and even close to port said we were planing to get therei did not see any eg militias' only the army and the eg commando at budappest and some other places.
    Did you share in Balouza / Romani battle, where the Eg commandos of the 183rd Saaiqa group checked the advance of Natke Nir reservist armored battalion on the 7th of Oct. In this battle 30 IDF soldiers were killed & 12 tanks were destroyed in two hours. But what you were doing near Port Saeid !! Kindly elaborate.
    Further question, did you serve with Dani Mat??

  8. #3068
    Senior Member Camera's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    France
    Age
    55
    Posts
    14,811

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by shelata View Post
    Do you believe really that IDF could have continued the fighting after the defeat in Suez & the defeat of Sharon Div at the south of Ismaeyly??
    What would IDF fulfill from the fighting continuation !! Again remember, Sharon Div failed in his try to surround the 2nd army & Adan div failed to occupy Suez . I believe you shared in the War so refrain from repeating rumors. By no mean, IDF exhausted troops were in shape to advance to the west. The Eg fourth armed Div was applying a solid block in front of Adan & Kalman Div.
    To answer yr question, I have served in the army.
    In your country which is ruled by the army for 60 years now, in which 40% of the economy is held by the armed forced and in which nothing worthless was achieved for 6 decades of keeping the army in power, you were brainwashed in order to glorify the armed forces that rule you.
    You understood it already regarding your present situation. With time passing, you will also reconstruct your past and YKW.

  9. #3069
    Suspended for infractions
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Port Saeid- EGYPT
    Posts
    1,404

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Camera View Post
    In your country which is ruled by the army for 60 years now, in which 40% of the economy is held by the armed forced and in which nothing worthless was achieved for 6 decades of keeping the army in power, you were brainwashed in order to glorify the armed forces that rule you.
    You understood it already regarding your present situation. With time passing, you will also reconstruct your past and YKW.
    While some of yr posts express correct history facts & events, yr YK thread contributions are quiet modest. I was surprised to watch you denying that Sharon Div had the duty of surrounding the 2nd army. In addition you showed stubbornness when I quoted you Sharon confession of his plan to surround the same. There are many examples of this lack of knowledge but you chose the father role who keep advising everyone but himself. Re-visit yr post to evaluate how silly & unreal it is. What 60 years & army rule has anything to do with solid facts &
    IDF defeat in YK war according to Israeli historians themselves !! re-read YK war history objectively.

  10. #3070
    Senior Member Camera's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    France
    Age
    55
    Posts
    14,811

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by shelata View Post
    While some of yr posts express correct history facts & events, yr YK thread contributions are quiet modest. I was surprised to watch you denying that Sharon Div had the duty of surrounding the 2nd army. In addition you showed stubbornness when I quoted you Sharon confession of his plan to surround the same. There are many examples of this lack of knowledge but you chose the father role who keep advising everyone but himself. Re-visit yr post to evaluate how silly & unreal it is. What 60 years & army rule has anything to do with solid facts &
    IDF defeat in YK war according to Israeli historians themselves !! re-read YK war history objectively.
    I explained you already about Sharon. His brigades were deployed on both sides of the canal in order to secure the bridge head. It was not what he wanted to do, it was what he was ordered to do.
    Yes, Sharon wanted to surround the 2nd Army, but the Southern command denied him the brigades to do it, because they wanted to surround the 3rd Army first.
    This dispute with his superiors about what was better to do, preoccupied Sharon years later. It doesn't mean that Sharon failed or the Southern command failed.

    The reasons you were brainwashed with biaised narratives are simples: the glorification of the military class who rules over you and rules over your economy serves to make you proud of it and make you accept this situation. The result is you feed an army of 1 million man, 500 thousands professionals, even though you face no threat and you don't need such huge army. This money could have been invested in education, health, the economy... But no, it maintains the army, because this is the interest of the officers who rule you.
    It worked for 60 years. It doesn't seem to work since few months.

  11. #3071
    Banned user
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Switzerland
    Posts
    383

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by gutman76 View Post
    i did not see any militis but only well armed soldiers

    i took part during all the war from baluza to suez and even close to port said we were planing to get there:
    i did not see any eg militias' only the army and the eg commando at budappest and some other places.
    Exactly. Egyptian militia would have been vaporized by IDF. So all this heroic defense by militia BS... is just BS.

  12. #3072
    Banned user
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Switzerland
    Posts
    383

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Camera View Post
    In your country which is ruled by the army for 60 years now, in which 40% of the economy is held by the armed forced and in which nothing worthless was achieved for 6 decades of keeping the army in power, you were brainwashed in order to glorify the armed forces that rule you.
    You understood it already regarding your present situation. With time passing, you will also reconstruct your past and YKW.

    A not total defeat is all Egypt has to show for in the past 70 years (or 100 years). What else are they going to cling to?

  13. #3073
    Senior Member Camera's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    France
    Age
    55
    Posts
    14,811

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by NPFF View Post
    A not total defeat is all Egypt has to show for in the past 70 years (or 100 years). What else are they going to cling to?
    What else? They pretend they were victorious.

  14. #3074

    Default Please let's grow up

    Quote Originally Posted by NPFF View Post
    A not total defeat is all Egypt has to show for in the past 70 years (or 100 years). What else are they going to cling to?
    NPFF,
    this is your second post which is deliberately inflamatory for the Egyptians who read this forum. Do you think that it is a positive contribution to provoke them ? This thread has gone several times through this "you lost/no we won/lost too" endless tug-o-war. Will it be an improvement if it starts again?

    With a little bit of maturity, we could simply agreee to disagree. Basically everyone in the west thinks one way, and everyone in Egypt believes the other way. Nobody can expect the other side to eat their hats publicly.

    The best use of this forum is not for trolling or for childish ego contests. If everyone agreed to grow up and behave above this, we could restore the focus of this thread on what it should be:
    Remember and honor those who fought, those who fell. On both sides.

  15. #3075
    Banned user
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Switzerland
    Posts
    383

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by dan_pub View Post
    NPFF,
    this is your second post which is deliberately inflamatory for the Egyptians who read this forum. Do you think that it is a positive contribution to provoke them ? This thread has gone several times through this "you lost/no we won/lost too" endless tug-o-war. Will it be an improvement if it starts again?

    With a little bit of maturity, we could simply agreee to disagree. Basically everyone in the west thinks one way, and everyone in Egypt believes the other way. Nobody can expect the other side to eat their hats publicly.

    The best use of this forum is not for trolling or for childish ego contests. If everyone agreed to grow up and behave above this, we could restore the focus of this thread on what it should be:
    Remember and honor those who fought, those who fell. On both sides.
    Yeah... but Egypt lost. It's not my fault their mentality is skewed. My Egyptian French teacher actually though that El-Alamein was the biggest battle in WW2. Shoudl I have agreed with him? Winning is a zero sum thing. You can't have 2 winners. So someone must have lost. Syria lost. Egypt lost. Thye fought as well as could be for a Third World country and yes individual soldiers displayed a lot of bravery. They still lost.

    Saying Egypt won in '73 is like saying Poland won in 1939 because in 1945 as part of the Soviet Army they entered Berlin and got all their territory back. Egypt getting back Sinai in late 70s does not mean it has won in '73.

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •