Thread: Yum Kippur War

  1. #3046
    Senior Member shelata's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Camera View Post
    In your country which is ruled by the army for 60 years now, in which 40% of the economy is held by the armed forced and in which nothing worthless was achieved for 6 decades of keeping the army in power, you were brainwashed in order to glorify the armed forces that rule you.
    You understood it already regarding your present situation. With time passing, you will also reconstruct your past and YKW.
    While some of yr posts express correct history facts & events, yr YK thread contributions are quiet modest. I was surprised to watch you denying that Sharon Div had the duty of surrounding the 2nd army. In addition you showed stubbornness when I quoted you Sharon confession of his plan to surround the same. There are many examples of this lack of knowledge but you chose the father role who keep advising everyone but himself. Re-visit yr post to evaluate how silly & unreal it is. What 60 years & army rule has anything to do with solid facts &
    IDF defeat in YK war according to Israeli historians themselves !! re-read YK war history objectively.

  2. #3047
    Senior Member Camera's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shelata View Post
    While some of yr posts express correct history facts & events, yr YK thread contributions are quiet modest. I was surprised to watch you denying that Sharon Div had the duty of surrounding the 2nd army. In addition you showed stubbornness when I quoted you Sharon confession of his plan to surround the same. There are many examples of this lack of knowledge but you chose the father role who keep advising everyone but himself. Re-visit yr post to evaluate how silly & unreal it is. What 60 years & army rule has anything to do with solid facts &
    IDF defeat in YK war according to Israeli historians themselves !! re-read YK war history objectively.
    I explained you already about Sharon. His brigades were deployed on both sides of the canal in order to secure the bridge head. It was not what he wanted to do, it was what he was ordered to do.
    Yes, Sharon wanted to surround the 2nd Army, but the Southern command denied him the brigades to do it, because they wanted to surround the 3rd Army first.
    This dispute with his superiors about what was better to do, preoccupied Sharon years later. It doesn't mean that Sharon failed or the Southern command failed.

    The reasons you were brainwashed with biaised narratives are simples: the glorification of the military class who rules over you and rules over your economy serves to make you proud of it and make you accept this situation. The result is you feed an army of 1 million man, 500 thousands professionals, even though you face no threat and you don't need such huge army. This money could have been invested in education, health, the economy... But no, it maintains the army, because this is the interest of the officers who rule you.
    It worked for 60 years. It doesn't seem to work since few months.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gutman76 View Post
    i did not see any militis but only well armed soldiers

    i took part during all the war from baluza to suez and even close to port said we were planing to get there:
    i did not see any eg militias' only the army and the eg commando at budappest and some other places.
    Exactly. Egyptian militia would have been vaporized by IDF. So all this heroic defense by militia BS... is just BS.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Camera View Post
    In your country which is ruled by the army for 60 years now, in which 40% of the economy is held by the armed forced and in which nothing worthless was achieved for 6 decades of keeping the army in power, you were brainwashed in order to glorify the armed forces that rule you.
    You understood it already regarding your present situation. With time passing, you will also reconstruct your past and YKW.

    A not total defeat is all Egypt has to show for in the past 70 years (or 100 years). What else are they going to cling to?

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    Senior Member Camera's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NPFF View Post
    A not total defeat is all Egypt has to show for in the past 70 years (or 100 years). What else are they going to cling to?
    What else? They pretend they were victorious.

  6. #3051

    Default Please let's grow up

    Quote Originally Posted by NPFF View Post
    A not total defeat is all Egypt has to show for in the past 70 years (or 100 years). What else are they going to cling to?
    NPFF,
    this is your second post which is deliberately inflamatory for the Egyptians who read this forum. Do you think that it is a positive contribution to provoke them ? This thread has gone several times through this "you lost/no we won/lost too" endless tug-o-war. Will it be an improvement if it starts again?

    With a little bit of maturity, we could simply agreee to disagree. Basically everyone in the west thinks one way, and everyone in Egypt believes the other way. Nobody can expect the other side to eat their hats publicly.

    The best use of this forum is not for trolling or for childish ego contests. If everyone agreed to grow up and behave above this, we could restore the focus of this thread on what it should be:
    Remember and honor those who fought, those who fell. On both sides.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dan_pub View Post
    NPFF,
    this is your second post which is deliberately inflamatory for the Egyptians who read this forum. Do you think that it is a positive contribution to provoke them ? This thread has gone several times through this "you lost/no we won/lost too" endless tug-o-war. Will it be an improvement if it starts again?

    With a little bit of maturity, we could simply agreee to disagree. Basically everyone in the west thinks one way, and everyone in Egypt believes the other way. Nobody can expect the other side to eat their hats publicly.

    The best use of this forum is not for trolling or for childish ego contests. If everyone agreed to grow up and behave above this, we could restore the focus of this thread on what it should be:
    Remember and honor those who fought, those who fell. On both sides.
    Yeah... but Egypt lost. It's not my fault their mentality is skewed. My Egyptian French teacher actually though that El-Alamein was the biggest battle in WW2. Shoudl I have agreed with him? Winning is a zero sum thing. You can't have 2 winners. So someone must have lost. Syria lost. Egypt lost. Thye fought as well as could be for a Third World country and yes individual soldiers displayed a lot of bravery. They still lost.

    Saying Egypt won in '73 is like saying Poland won in 1939 because in 1945 as part of the Soviet Army they entered Berlin and got all their territory back. Egypt getting back Sinai in late 70s does not mean it has won in '73.

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    Cairo War Museum. 1973 Victory Monument.




  9. #3054
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    Was the Hijacking of an Austrian Train Filled with Soviet Jews a Diversion Before the Yom Kippur War?

    The days before the Yom Kippur War saw the first case of a Western state capitulate to Palestinian terrorists.

    By Shaul Shay

    (...)

    Was the attack a premeditated diversionary maneuver before the Yom Kippur War? Since As Sa’iqa was under the close supervision of Syrian security forces, it seems unlikely that it initiated a terrorist strike in the international arena without the knowledge and consent of the Syrian government, especially if the international ramifications of such an act are considered.
    *
    In an interview with a German newspaper, the two terrorists stated that they knew war was about to erupt, and that the operation was part of the war’s preparations. Nevertheless, controversy still surrounds the question of whether the September 28th attack was part of a grand deception plan by Syria, or whether its timing was entirely coincidental.
    *
    Thirty-eight years after the event, we can assume that the Syrians realized that Israel would perceive a terrorist strike in Austria as a blatant provocation and would probably respond militarily against those responsible for it. The fear of Israeli retaliation was intended to justify Syria’s mobilization and concentration of forces in the Golan Heights, and thus conceal the real reason behind its heightened military activity in the disputed area.
    *
    Second, and perhaps the main reason for the operation, the terrorist attack occupied Israel’s political and military leadership for the five critical days before the war and diverted attention from the real threat.

    (...)
    *
    The question remains: can it be determined with absolute certainty, that the terrorist strike in Austria was part of a Syrian master-plan to cover its preparations for the surprise attack in the Yom Kippur War?
    *
    Perhaps Israel’s prewar intelligence shortcomings were so great that the Syrians did not need to go through so much trouble to hide their preparations, since Israeli intelligence anyway flagrantly ignored the many indications of the impending catastrophe.
    Full article:*http://www.israeldefense.com/?Catego...&ArticleID=708

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    Senior Member Camera's Avatar
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    Soviet envoy warned Nixon and Kissinger against Mideast war in 1973, documents reveal

    Soviet ambassador Gromyko warned Nixon and Kissinger just a week before the Yom Kippur War that they could 'all wake up one day and find that there is a real conflagration,' but the Americans didn't heed him.


    By Amir Oren

    http://www.haaretz.com/weekend/week-...eveal-1.404547

    Newly declassified archives reveal more information about the exchanges between the Super Powers.

  11. #3056
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    Default A TV report Sinai front (company battalion 867)

    Date: unknown, during YKW

    Company 4 /Logistic battalion 867 repairs damaged armor of Brigade 500/Division 162.

    Replacement of a damaged gun of a tank (hit by a mortar shell).
    Replacement of the engine of a M3 half track.
    Replacement of the radiator and reparation of the engine of a tank (hit by a 120mm mortar shell).




    THE VIDEO:
    http://www.youtube.com/embed/xbdpuJyY1dA

    http://www.youtube.com/embed/xbdpuJyY1dA
    Last edited by Camera; 02-14-2012 at 05:48 AM.

  12. #3057
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    Default A TV report fight on both Banks of Suez Canal

    [*******#222222][FONT=Times]Date: unknown, first days of the crossing of the Suez Canal by the IDF


    THE VIDEO:
    http://www.youtube.com/embed/scwwhW31OMQ


    [CENTER][SIZE=3]Translation to English [/SIZE][/CENTER]

    Voice Over reporter:
    Says there are artillery battles on both banks of the Canal, with the participation of Egyptian Migs and Israeli Mirages who try to down them.
    The Egyptians try to close the corridor on the East Bank. They shell the forces that pass through in order to isolate the IDF force operating on the Western Bank.
    The destroyed vehicles attest of the heavy battles of the last days.
    (On the West Bank), the reporter enters inside an Egyptian camp. He says there is a destroyed Egyptian helicopter there and destroyed Egyptian armor.

    1mn 15 sec - Voice Over 2 (of an unspecified officer):
    We had difficult battles in the last two days against Egyptian forces that managed to organize a defensive line. Two days ago we destroyed 80 tanks, hundreds of soldiers, hundreds of artillery guns.
    The Egyptians resisted each time, at each battle, during the first hour or two, and then they fled away.
    Yesterday we destroyed 30 tanks. Some of them were left by the Egyptians, completely new. Unfortunately I don't have crews who know how to use them. We destroyed two missile bases, two days ago and also today. So the IAF can provide us now with close support, and can operate freely.


    [/FONT][/COLOR]
    Last edited by Camera; 02-13-2012 at 06:04 PM.

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    Default A TV report - February 1974

    The report tells the return to East Bank of Armored Company 3/Battalion 264/Brigade 421, which was the first to cross the Canal in the morning of October 16, 1973.



    THE VIDEO:
    http://player.vimeo.com/video/301823...e=0&portrait=0



    [CENTER]Translation to English


    [/CENTER]

    VOICE OVER REPORTER:

    In the desert, east to the agriculture zone, the soldiers of the reservist armor company have another day of rest. In the morning of October 16, they crossed the canal and joined a small group of paratroopers. The force operated then in the rear of the Egyptian army and preceded the big forces that followed it. They also participated to the short attrition war, that followed the war. Since then, the situation is calm.


    00:59 OFFICER 1 (to the reporter):
    When we arrived to the canal in the morning of October 16, we saw the bulldozers digging the ramp and the Gillois entering the water. When the first tank, of our company commander, Yossi, crossed, it was a very emotional moment. The first tank that mounted on the Gillois and joined the paratroopers on the other bank, symbolized the whole crossing.

    01:35 OFFICER 1 (to the soldiers):
    At 7 in the morning, we will start to move toward Farid, then we will continue to the shore of the lake.
    At 11:30, we will take the road of the airport to the area of the Stone Bridge. There, on the Egyptian bank, we will hold a short ceremony at which we will represent the Armor Corps, and 4 recoilless gun crews will represent the paratroopers, as the first units that stepped on the Egyptian soil. We will remove there the Israeli flag for the last time on the Western Band.

    02:30 VOICE OVER REPORTER:
    First to cross and last to leave. Jonathan, the company commander, prepare the last details to join the other band.
    Last morning, last coffee with a cigarette before the tanks. They will go back home.

    02:50 JONATHAN, THE COMPANY COMMANDER:
    I'll start now a new life. I believed I changed. My appearance may be the same, but inside me I feel more mature. We got even older. And I'm going to start a new life at my town, with my family.

    03:30 VOICE OVER REPORTER:
    Jonathan gives the order and the tanks move toward the west on the same roads they used for their offensive, four months ago.

    03:50 OFFICER 1 (to the reporter):
    Everybody feels the need to do something, like Motti Ashkenazi (who protested against the failures that preceded the war).

    04:25 VOICE OVER REPORTER:
    The armor company and the paratroopers meet again on the bridge, the Stone Bridge. When they crossed to the Western Bank, they did it at darkness with zodiacs and Gillois. The road Eastward is completely different.
    04:55 It was decided that they will leave after a symbolic ceremony. The paratroopers company and the armor company face each other. A little crowd gathered on the bridge to watch this historic moment: the first paratrooper soldier that stepped on Egypt's soil gets down the flag.
    They free 120 doves. And the armor company with the jeeps and the APC of the paratroopers cross the Canal for the last time on the Stone Bridge.
    Last edited by Camera; 02-14-2012 at 05:46 AM.

  14. #3059
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    Default The Roller Bridge - artwork

    The roller bridge was tracked to the Suez Canal by Brigade 600 (143rd Division).
    This assault bridge was a 400 tones and 180 meters length monster made of 80 rollers. It was tracked by 12 tanks.


    Ofer Idan, who served in Brigade 600 during the YKW, made an art work and a miniature of the bridge that is exposed today at the Latroun Armor Museum.
    The inscription on the artwork sums up the role of the brigade 600 during YKW, and commemorate the names of the 119 fallen soldiers of the brigade.









    ----------------------------------------


    An artwork that represents the map of the sector in which Brigade 600 fought in Sinai.





    ----------------------------------------

    Ofer Idan is an artist and an author, but he wrote about YKW only few years ago. His book "A tank crew member" was published in 2007. The books tells the story of battalion 410 (brigade 600) in which Ofer Idan served during YKW, and the author's struggle with his post traumatic disorder after the war.



    Last edited by Camera; 02-21-2012 at 09:17 PM. Reason: addition of pictures

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