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Thread: Yum Kippur War

  1. #3841
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    Quote Originally Posted by Climber View Post
    Merciful?

    No, we never wanted the Sinai, we wanted a embassy in Cairo. You got your land back we got what we wanted for 30+ years, since 48, peace, recognition and full diplomatic relationship.
    so israel faught from 48 to 73 only for peace
    you have to change your flag

    and be sure that israel will have to leave the arab world sooner or later

  2. #3842
    Senior Member GB_FXST's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord 11 View Post
    so israel faught from 48 to 73 only for peace
    you have to change your flag

    and be sure that israel will have to leave the arab world sooner or later
    Gold, pure gold.

  3. #3843
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord 11 View Post
    so israel faught from 48 to 73 only for peace
    you have to change your flag

    and be sure that israel will have to leave the arab world sooner or later
    Of course we fought for peace, not sure what you were taught. but it is sad to learn that after all these years, we have fought in vain.

    Why we should change our flag?

    About we leaving, you are going to kill each other before that.

    Now, stop trolling habibi.

  4. #3844
    Senior Member Shelldraken's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord 11 View Post
    LOL they were merciful
    No the Israelis weren’t merciful they were forced to accept the ceasefire by the Americans and the Russians. The Egyptians were desperate to stop the fighting because they knew their front had collapsed and the Russians did not want them to go through the humiliation of another Six Day War. Also the Americans knew that if Egypt was humiliated again then the chance for peace after the war would be minimal.

    Basically Russia threatened that they would join the fight on Egypt’s side if there was not a ceasefire before the end of October. They were starting to ready the deployment of their paratroopers to Egypt and also nuclear weapons.

    If the war had continued for another week with Israel calling the Russian bluff the result would have been disastrous for Egypt. The Egyptian 3rd Army would have to surrender or die in place with over 20,000 more Egyptian POWs. The IDF would have cut off both Ismalia and Port Said in the north and Suez in the south. Suez would be completely cut off and likely to surrender or collapse without any supplies. Also the IDF would be overlooking Cairo and probably on the banks of the Nile somewhere.

  5. #3845
    Senior Member Shelldraken's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord 11 View Post
    and be sure that israel will have to leave the arab world sooner or later
    See that’s your problem there. The Middle East isn’t the Arab World. Never has been, never will be. It’s like saying Europe is the German World. Arabs are just one national group amongst many others.

  6. #3846
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shelldraken View Post
    No the Israelis weren’t merciful they were forced to accept the ceasefire by the Americans and the Russians. The Egyptians were desperate to stop the fighting because they knew their front had collapsed and the Russians did not want them to go through the humiliation of another Six Day War. Also the Americans knew that if Egypt was humiliated again then the chance for peace after the war would be minimal.

    Basically Russia threatened that they would join the fight on Egypt’s side if there was not a ceasefire before the end of October. They were starting to ready the deployment of their paratroopers to Egypt and also nuclear weapons.

    If the war had continued for another week with Israel calling the Russian bluff the result would have been disastrous for Egypt. The Egyptian 3rd Army would have to surrender or die in place with over 20,000 more Egyptian POWs. The IDF would have cut off both Ismalia and Port Said in the north and Suez in the south. Suez would be completely cut off and likely to surrender or collapse without any supplies. Also the IDF would be overlooking Cairo and probably on the banks of the Nile somewhere.
    for the third army issue we can discuss it , but the second army to be surrendered was big for israeli forces , sharon division was in no shape to cut ismailia by the ceasefire time , the 182 egy paratroop brigade stoped sharon division but at with high losses in man and equipments .

  7. #3847
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shelldraken View Post
    No the Israelis weren’t merciful they were forced to accept the ceasefire by the Americans and the Russians. The Egyptians were desperate to stop the fighting because they knew their front had collapsed and the Russians did not want them to go through the humiliation of another Six Day War. Also the Americans knew that if Egypt was humiliated again then the chance for peace after the war would be minimal.

    Basically Russia threatened that they would join the fight on Egypt’s side if there was not a ceasefire before the end of October. They were starting to ready the deployment of their paratroopers to Egypt and also nuclear weapons.

    If the war had continued for another week with Israel calling the Russian bluff the result would have been disastrous for Egypt. The Egyptian 3rd Army would have to surrender or die in place with over 20,000 more Egyptian POWs. The IDF would have cut off both Ismalia and Port Said in the north and Suez in the south. Suez would be completely cut off and likely to surrender or collapse without any supplies. Also the IDF would be overlooking Cairo and probably on the banks of the Nile somewhere.
    for the third army issue we can discuss it , but the second army to be surrendered was big for israeli forces , sharon division was in no shape to cut ismailia by the ceasefire time , the 182 egy paratroop brigade stoped sharon division but at with high losses in man and equipments .

  8. #3848
    Senior Member Shelldraken's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sergiooliva121 View Post
    for the third army issue we can discuss it , but the second army to be surrendered was big for israeli forces , sharon division was in no shape to cut ismailia by the ceasefire time , the 182 egy paratroop brigade stoped sharon division but at with high losses in man and equipments .
    Which is why if the war had gone on for another week the EAF units between Ismailia and Cairo would have faced two or more new Israeli armoured divisions that would have been moved there from not being needed in the Sinai or maybe even from the Golan. Also with the EAF air defence shield broken the Israeli air force was operating in the clear the last few days and able to do a lot more damage to ground forces. A full Israeli armoured corps with air support would have been able to drive north and west to reach the Manzala Lagoon and the edge of the Nile farming zone.

    With the Israeli navy dominant at sea and the air force free ranging supply to Port Said through the littoral zone would have been minimal. Second Army would be cut off from ordnance and fuel resupply but not in as drastic situation as Third Army being cut off from food and water as well. But a cut off force is highly vulnerable to a attack because they have a limited ammunition supply and can quickly collapse once they run out. It could only take a few days of Israeli pressure to force a collapse in the eastern bank forces of the Second Army after they are cut off. But at least unlike Third Army the soldiers there could flee back across the canal into the urban protection of Ismailia and Port Said.

  9. #3849
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shelldraken View Post
    Which is why if the war had gone on for another week the EAF units between Ismailia and Cairo would have faced two or more new Israeli armoured divisions that would have been moved there from not being needed in the Sinai or maybe even from the Golan. Also with the EAF air defence shield broken the Israeli air force was operating in the clear the last few days and able to do a lot more damage to ground forces. A full Israeli armoured corps with air support would have been able to drive north and west to reach the Manzala Lagoon and the edge of the Nile farming zone.

    With the Israeli navy dominant at sea and the air force free ranging supply to Port Said through the littoral zone would have been minimal. Second Army would be cut off from ordnance and fuel resupply but not in as drastic situation as Third Army being cut off from food and water as well. But a cut off force is highly vulnerable to a attack because they have a limited ammunition supply and can quickly collapse once they run out. It could only take a few days of Israeli pressure to force a collapse in the eastern bank forces of the Second Army after they are cut off. But at least unlike Third Army the soldiers there could flee back across the canal into the urban protection of Ismailia and Port Said.
    your plan is theoritically good , but dont forget some facts sasson forces in sinai were small and just to keep IDF presence infront of second army and third armies in sinai , plus sharon and magen lost many tanks during opening tirtur-lexicon roads and in the west south of ismailyia , for example one of sharone brigades lost some 60 tanks in chinese farm alone and at missouri position lost some 22 tanks .
    another fact to be considered is that during that week yuguslavian and algerian tanks were arriving at the front helping to stabilize the front .
    some interesting fact is that the commander of the egy paratrooper brigade defending ismaylyia did , is that he flooded the sweet canal near ismaylyia which helped in the defence of ismayiliya but immediately after the ceasefire , sadat fired him for that action !

  10. #3850
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    question for the the memebers here , what is the best western or israeli source to talk about the israeli crossing to "Africa" ?
    i read gen adan memories , they were very good and very professional but wished to read more from other sources .

  11. #3851
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    Quote Originally Posted by sergiooliva121 View Post
    question for the the memebers here , what is the best western or israeli source to talk about the israeli crossing to "Africa" ?
    i read gen adan memories , they were very good and very professional but wished to read more from other sources .
    There are actually a lot of such resources in this thread. Forum member Camera has translated into English and posted here much of General Israel Tal’s testimony to the post war Israeli commission. Which covers a lot of the details of Israeli plans and preparation for crossing the canal. Also another forum member has posted details of his battalion’s actions during the war.

    Since most western books tend to deal with the war in its entirely there aren’t any specific ones that come to mind that just focus on the Israeli canal crossing. There is French book “Kilometre 101” that has a lot of mostly photos focusing on both sides crossing the canal. It is long since out of print but a scanned .pdf can be downloaded from links available here:

    http://avaxhm.com/ebooks/history_mil...metre_101.html

  12. #3852
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    I just started reading:

    "The Decisiveness Of Israeli Small-Unit Leadership On The Golan Heights In The 1973 Yom Kippur War" by Major Oakland McCulloch.

    A very interesting read about the tactical (battalion, company, platoon, individual fighting element) battle for the Golan Heights during the 1973 Yom Kippur War. Full of details that are new to me (a pretty well read kind of guy on the subject). Amazing to read about the Israeli combat team (company and below) counter attacks on the first night of war.


    Can be downloaded, legitimately, for free here:


    http://www.dtic.mil/docs/citations/ADA417329


    Abstract : This study is an analysis of the decisiveness of Israeli small-unit leadership on the Golan Heights during the 1973 Yom Kippur War. What allowed the Israeli brigades on the Golan Heights to defeat an Arab coalition that launched a surprise attack with a force that vastly outnumbered the Israelis in men, tanks and artillery? The one advantage the Israelis had was the quality of leadership at the small-unit level. This study begins with a brief review of the strategic and operational situation in the Middle East in 1973. This includes background information on the Israeli and Arab forces facing each other on the Golan Heights and their plans for the defense and attack respectfully prior to the start of hostilities. The majority of the thesis discussion is concerned with the actual battle on the Golan Heights. It highlights the contributions that small-unit leadership made during the battle that allowed the vastly outnumbered IDF to destroy a massive Soviet-style Arab army. This portion of the study also looks at the experiences of those Israeli leaders involved in the fighting. The study then looks at leadership from the Israeli perspective. I define what leadership is and why it is important at the small-unit level. I take a close look at how the Israeli Defense Force (IDF) picks and trains its leaders and what role the Israeli Military Culture plays in that process. The conclusion of the thesis is that the IDF was able to fight and win even though surprised and vastly outnumbered due to the quality of leadership at the small-unit level. This lesson may prove to be important still today as the armies of the Western societies continue to get smaller even though they still face the threat of fighting the massive Soviet-style armies of the 'Axis of Evil' for decades to come.

  13. #3853
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    Quote Originally Posted by sergiooliva121 View Post
    question for the the memebers here , what is the best western or israeli source to talk about the israeli crossing to "Africa" ?
    i read gen adan memories , they were very good and very professional but wished to read more from other sources .
    in israel the crossing is a political football with no agreed upon exact version of history
    generally the there are two campes the sharon biriant saviour of israel lion of judea camp ( the right )
    the sharon brilliant but reckless and gung ho camp ( the left )

  14. #3854
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    And/or the Avraham "Bren" Adan as the unknown or unappreciated genius of the crossing.

  15. #3855
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    Report: Israeli delegation arrives in Egypt to search for bodies of 22 missing soldiers

    Of the 22 soldiers, 16 went missing during the Yom Kippur War, two during the War of Attrition and four during the Six Day War.

    By YASSER OKBI/ MAARIV HASHAVUA

    An Israeli delegation arrived in Cairo early Thursday morning in an attempt to find the remains of 22 soldiers who went missing during Israel's wars in Egypt, sources quoted by the Egyptian media said.

    Of the 22 soldiers, 16 went missing during the Yom Kippur War, two during the War of Attrition and four during the Six Day War.

    The sources said that the delegation arrived in a Jordanian plane from Amman. The IDF did not immediately respond to a request for comment on the report.

    The visit is the first of its kind since the ouster of former Egyptian president Hosni Mubarak. The last such visit took place in February 2010 and the current delegation is expected to renew its search for the soldiers' place of burial in a few separate areas of Egypt.

    The previous delegation's searches focused on the Abu Atwa High School in the city of Ismailia which sits on the West Bank of the Suez Canal. During the Yom Kippur War, IDF forces advanced to the periphery of the city, and it is possible that body parts of Israeli soldiers are still buried there.

    Nine Israeli soldiers who fought in the Yom Kippur War in the area of Ismailia are still missing.


    http://www.jpost.com/Arab-Israeli-Co...oldiers-385715

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