Soo, am I right ? Does Dragonov have a 10X zoom scope ? I want you to leanr it from you cause I don't know the real capability of that scope.Originally Posted by RomanS
I'm not an experinced person on using weapons because of my age and statement (an high-school student) but an experienced mate in this forum (Clearday-TRForce ) says that SVD was a reliable weapon. But he didn't mentioned about shooting at 1000m.
So I had better to let him to talk about this.
Russian military uses regular PSO. There are no high power scopes in Russian military for issue. Special forces buy their own.Soo, am I right ? Does Dragonov have a 10X zoom scope ? I want you to leanr it from you cause I don't know the real capability of that scope.
I'm not an experinced person on using weapons because of my age and statement (an high-school student
10x is probably a comercial scope, not military
Hmmm, I have seen a Turkish Special Forces member with a Dragonov which has Turkish (ASELSAN) made thermal imager. It must be very heavy but effective, also.
I used the ssg69 with a 6x scope....
...and it sucks when the targets are more than 700m away, and especially when it gets dark. The standart scope also uses the old german style T crosshair..
Back to the svd: In the picture posted before, is a version with black handguards shown. Are this improved types like ak47 and ak74 basing on the same systems?
OK - whats the set up ? Are these guys at squad or platoon level ?
Probable killing range: 3,800 m (4,158 yards)
-jippo
Ya I saw that and laughed that would be 2.3625 Miles or 3.801 kilometers somehow I am not buying those ranges...
Even most designated marksman in US forces don't use the M14 since most are thrashed and worn out. They tend to use match grade ammo in an m4 or m16, such as the M16A2E3 and are deployed at the squad level for ranges up to 500 metres.
Those M14s that are in use are pretty much being modified from scratch at Quantico to form the dmr. They have the fancy fiberglass stocks, the match barrel, modified to use a variety of scopes and alsorts on them. I only know of the Marines using it though in small numbers.
Of course if you want to compare an M14 to an SVD you really need to compare them to the old 50s and 60s M14 before they altered everything with match parts. After all the SVD is not exactly cutting edge Russian marksman's rifle anymore.
would take a divine act to get a round of that caliber to actually hit a target at that range. And if a dragunov tags you at 3800 meters...well your ass was on Gods hit list.
To the guy who said the Ruskies have embedded snipers in their platoons:
2ND ID SBCT has embedded snipers in platoons, too. Aside from M24 SWS rifles, they use M14/M21 DMR's. This gives a platoon, and sumarilly a company the ability to engage targets out to a longer range than their M4/M16 rifles, just like the Ruskies thought of when they made the Dragunov, which is essentially a Designated Marksman's Rifle (DMR). Simply to extend the range of a rifle platoon, motorised/dismounted, airborne or light, out past their AK's, against point targets.
And it worked for the Ruskies. And it apparently works damn good with us, too.
I gotta stress that I believe there has been ALOT more work put into accurizing the M14 without detracting from its' reliability, thanks to civilians here in firearm-friendly nations. The Dragunov has little work, so far as I've seen.
Still going with an M14.
The U.S. military has it's choice of weapons. They have not found anything better than an M14 in a .308. You can come up with equivalent firearms, but the M14 was a competition grade rifle from the start. My M1 Garand is ridiculously accurate. It fills the role of mid-range sniper rifle just fine. It will run all day and night if necessary. It is a fine firearm.
I remember when Reed-Knight was working on their SR-25. It is OK, but the Navy SEALS went with M14s, because the SR-25 wasn't much better.
Abridged version of "Precision Shooting in the Global War on Terror," Small Arms Review. Vol. 9, No. 5, February, 2006.
(edit: added some pics to go along with abridged article.) [/QB][/QUOTE]Not All Are Snipers
While all precision shooters are valuable to the tacticial situation, not all are genuine "snipers." This distinguished names is best reserved for thos who have successfully completed formal schooling by their respective services, resulting in the award of the sniper MOS...
For the most part these men are assigned in the role of sniper and armed with top-of-the-line bolt-action Remigton 7.62mm rifles...or semi-auto .50 caliber Barrets.
...
Sharpshooters and Designated Marksmen
Because the demand far outstrips the supply of these "real" snipers, worthy shooters with somewhat lesser degrees of schooling and proficiency are also deserving of membership in the precision riflery fraternity...there is much latitude in what they are called...but SAR finds it convenient to use two broad categories.
We'll call the first category of semi-snipers "Sharpshooters/Designated Marksmen," who are expert shooters given some advanced instruction and then assigned the role as additional duty. They are usually identified by the distinctive scoped 7.62mm rifle with its protruding box magazine they proudly carry.
...
On The M14
SAR: Is the proper nomenclature Designated Marksman Rifle?
Army: There is no nomenclature for a modified M14 as this is not a formal Army program, but rather a unit-specific effort.
SAR: What is the basis of issue; how many per unit and who gets them?
Army: Zero. Some units have received depot surplus M14s to augment their authorized weapons but there is no formalized or standardized basis of issue, nor are all units authorized to have M14s - it is a capability provided for a limited time on a case-by-case basis.
SAR: What is the rationale for fielding these vs. the M24?
Army: All units authorized the M24 have their allocated quantity. Those units in receipt of M14s have not received them in lieu of M24 sniper rifles.
SAR: Whwere are the Designated Marksmen being trained and to what standards?
Army: Designated Marksmen are trained as part of markmanship sustainment training at the individual unit level, according to standards established in Chapter 7 of FM3-22.9, Rifle Marksmanship.
21st December 2004, Afghanistan. Specialist Jonathan Low, a Designated Marksman for Company C, 2nd Battalion, 27th Infantry Regiment.
Squad Designated Marksman
Not to be confused with those in the previous category [Designated Marksmen/Sharpshooters], Squad Designated Marksmen are members of Army and Marine rifle squads who carry specially modified 5.56mm M16A4 rifles or M4A1 carbines. telescopic sights and bipods are the most obvious indicators of this special status, but the luckiest ones carry weapons with match grade trigger groups and heavy barrels.
They usually get extra training to go along with this high-speed gun gear and are expected to put this to good use in two very important ways. First, the day scopes - usually 4 power ACOGs - enable better identification of threats among friendlies. Then, when the need arises to apply 5.56mm persuasion, the accuracy package plus well-honed shooting skills equals higher likelihood of finishing the job without collateral damage.
A Squad Designated Marksman from Company B, 2nd Battalion, 502nd Infantry Regiment, 101st Airborne Division, conducts search and sweep operations in the village of Shakaria, Iraq. January 9, 2006.
...
Stryker Brigade Snipers in Iraq
Troubled by the lack of recognition in news releases and other elements...SAR sent a request through Pentagon channels to the 25th Infantry Division, [then] deployed in Northern Iraq. The response was immediate and enthusiastic. Some excerpts:
-Major Mark Bieger [was] the Battalion Operations Officer for 1st Battalion, 24th Infantry Regiment in the 1st Brigade (Stryker Brigade Combat Team), 25th Infantry Division in Northern Iraq.
"Snipers have been critical to successful operations in fighting the insurgency in Mosul, Iraq. The sniper provides twho critical advantages: precision, long-range direct fires and covert surveillance. In an urban environment, the sniper's unique capabilities cannot be matched with other, lesser-trained soldiers, technology or alternate tactic, technique or procedure. The snipers of this battalion are absolutely necessary and an invaluable piece of the organization."
Stryker Company sniper, 24th Infantry Regiment. KIA by enemy sniper in Mosul.
-Captain Chris Bachl [was] a Stryker Infantry Company Commander of A Company, 1st Battalion, 5th Infantry Regiment deployed in Northern Iraq.
On sniper effectiveness in Iraq: "The seven man sniper squad (2 x 3-man sniper teams plus 1 Squad Leader) are used in a full array of operations in support of company and battalion targeting operations. Common operational uses include covert stay behind ambushes, cache/terrain of interest observation, counter-IED, Iraqi Army patrol overwatch, and counter-mortar/counter-rocket and COP/Hard site security. They truly operate over a full spectrum of operations to include both lethal and non-lethal roles. One critical role they play involves the gathering of information and intel as they conduct observation and surveillance. My company snipers were very adept at pinpointing enemy actions at a distance using their advanced optics. Their spot reports translated into critical real-time information (sensor to shooter link) that platoon's were able to act on instantly using their digital capabilities."
One example: "While providing observation and coutenr-reconaissance in support of a platoon maneuvering forward from a COP, the sniper team spotted 'suspicious activity.' After developing the situation and further observation, they observed military-aged males gathering at a house at a distance of 600 meters from the combat outpost. The sniper team was able to then vector the maneuver platoon to the house while the spotter and sniper continued to maintain eyes on the situation. Once the platoon was in sight, they gathering began to disperse, some picked up RPGs and AK-47s and started firing at the approaching platoon. The sniper team was able to islolate them with precision fires allowing the platoon to maneuver closer to the building."
-Captain Kevin Saatkamp [was] an Infantry Stryker company commander in the 3rd Battalion, 21st Infantry Regiment deployed to Northern Iraq.
"Snipers fulfill a critical role in the the urban insurgency. The benefits of the organic company sniper, unique to the Stryker Brigade, ad a tremendous precision fire asset to those who need it most: the infantryman on the ground. Consisting of a 3-man element, the sniper team provides not only the ability to 'reach out and touch someone,' but also the ability to observe targets covertly without a large signature. The largest challenge to the sniper in Mosul is the difficult and varied terrain. One mission the team may be placed in a 3-story building, the next in an open field. Leaving behind a sniper team in an area that just received contact has proved especially effective to US forces. Although not always employed, the sniper can provide an insight into the neighborhood that a normal dismounted patrol can't. In short, the company sniper team is a tremendous combat multiplier to the Stryker company and battalions."
Future Snipering
Army snipers - and maybe their Marine brothers - can look forward to receiving a fast-shooting 7.62mm sniper rifle in the next year or so...the XM110 Semi-Automatic Sniper System, essentially a beefed-up and tuned-up M16 along the lines of the Navy SEAL's Mk. 11 Mod 0 (Knight's SR-25).
Also, Ronnie Barret hasn't rested on his M107 .50 caliber laurels. Joint Services Small Arms Program is well along with developmental work and safety testing of his 25mm high-velocity version called the XM109 Anti-Material Payload Rifle. Insiders report this awesome weapon has already seen "operational evaluation" overseas.
Actually, Barnes, Hornady, Nosler, Sierra, Speer, and Swift provide .308 (7.62x51) ranging from 100gr to 240gr.
Come on now sergey. You get all "I am the man" and then you stick your foot in your mouth.
I expect better.
Probable killing range is the distance to which the projectile is still rated as lethal. The average 30 cal rifle bullet has a terminal velocity in air of about 330fps. In other words if you dropped a 30 cal bullet from an aircraft at 20km up it will be travelling at about 330fps when it hits the ground.Probable killing range: 3,800 m (4,158 yards)
So bolt action rifles don't suffer from a cold bore on the first shot? How?All Semiatomatics have the first round Problem, it goes somewhere else than follow ups. At ranges like 500m and more a Bolt action is the better choice.
(I do agree that for very long range accuracy a bolt action is generally more accurate, but is more accurate always better?)
They come with a x4 scope as standard. Currently they are being offered with a 3-9 variable power scope, which should make longer range shots easier.I know that SVD is a good sniper rifle but I have seen that's scope and I think it's not enough to shoot a target which is 1km away. I think that scope is about 8-10x. Even my portable hand binocular is 10X. And I can say I can't clearly see a person from that distance, clearly. I'm sure, if SVD had a 20X scope it would be greater rifle even at 1000m.
Not too happy for what? It isn't a sniper rifle so if they don't like it for not being a sniper rifle then you can harldy blame the rifle for that...You would be surprised, a lot of SF members in Russia I know are not too happy with SVD
There are now a few models of SVD to choose from. A bullpup called SVU. A shortened model with a folding stock but heavier barrel and synthetic furnature called SVDS. They also have the SVDK which fires the longer range 9.3 x 63mm round.Back to the svd: In the picture posted before, is a version with black handguards shown. Are this improved types like ak47 and ak74 basing on the same systems?
Perhaps a better comparison would be between the two weapons would be the SVDK with the variable power scope (Giperon I think it is called)... it still has the reticule lit for low light use at dawn and dusk or at targets in the shade or dark targets. It still has the active IR detector plate as well for revealing active IR sources. In addition to the optical rangefinder.
The purpose of the new ammo is because in the 800m-1200m range most normal 30 cal ammo enters a transonic phase where accuracy deteriorates. The 9.3mm round performs a similar role to the western 338 laupa magnum rounds in filling that gap between 30 cal and 50 cal.
The range is determined by calculating the required energy to get a kill and then determining the range at which the bullet still retains that energy level. It is not a measure of accuracy. ie at 3.8km the 7.62 x 54mm round from an SVD retains the energy to kill a human.Ya I saw that and laughed that would be 2.3625 Miles or 3.801 kilometers somehow I am not buying those ranges...
Has little work? It is a custom designed rifle!!! The M14 is an infantry battle rifle.The Dragunov has little work, so far as I've seen.
When first issued the 7.62 x 54mmR round had a 220 grain round nose bullet.Actually, Barnes, Hornady, Nosler, Sierra, Speer, and Swift provide .308 (7.62x51) ranging from 100gr to 240gr.
The fact that several western bullet makers produce bullets in various weights doesn't mean they shoot well. The larger case capacity of the Russian round means you can get big bullets and more powder at the same time.
[QUOTE=GazB]Probable killing range is the distance to which the projectile is still rated as lethal. The average 30 cal rifle bullet has a terminal velocity in air of about 330fps. In other words if you dropped a 30 cal bullet from an aircraft at 20km up it will be travelling at about 330fps when it hits the ground.
Well for one, that's not a good example, because if you dropped a bullet from an airplane, the force of gravity would make it go faster so when it hit the ground it would have been going alot faster than the speed at which it was dropped..
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