Hitler wanted a bit of the Vatican in Berlin

[2RHPZ]

Hitler wanted a bit of the Vatican in Berlin

ROME: Adolf Hitler intended to recreate the Vatican's St Peter's Square in Berlin to honour his ally Benito Mussolini, newly discovered documents have revealed.

Albert Speer, the Nazi leader's chief architect, was commissioned to draw up the plans, which have been discovered by historians examining his papers.

They had been stored in a secret room inside Moscow's Museum of Architecture after being taken to Russia at the end of World War II. There were more than 200 boxes of files belonging to Speer, whose grand designs for the rebuilding of Nazi Berlin were already well known.

But the plans for a new, Germanic version of St Peter's Square, complete with a giant statue of Mussolini, have astonished historians.

Speer even built a scale model of how he planned to recreate the piazza's columns.

The Moscow museum's director, David Sarkisian, said: "The plan was for the new Berlin to be ready in 1950 after Nazi Germany had defeated the Allies. Hitler would declare Germany the ruler of a world empire, and at the centre of its capital … was to be a recreation of St Peter's Square in the Vatican."

Mr Sarkisian said Speer's plans included the columns from the square and at the centre instead of an obelisk, as in Rome, there would be a huge statue of Mussolini.

"Hitler considered the Eternal City to be the only city in the world to rival Berlin so he wanted to better it in every way possible."

Speer's documents show that Hitler took a great interest in the plans and was delighted with the architect's model. He also viewed several castings of Mussolini's statue that were commissioned but the plans were eventually abandoned at the end of 1943.

At the end of the war Speer was tried in Nuremberg and sentenced to 20 years' jail. After his release from Spandau prison in 1966 he published his memoirs and died in London 15 years later.

smh.com.au

[Uninen]

Hitler and..

to honour his ally Benito Mussolini

Dont really fit. lol. The man basicly loathed him..

[Greek soldier]

Watch the movie "Amen" by Costas Gavras...

[demotivater]

Don't count your chickens...

[Kilgor]

Hitler had numerous grand plans for construction and monuments around and outside berlin. Some of them are beyond comprehension, I wouldnt read too far into it..

[ZaakM433]

speer was a fairly good guy... he wasnt really a sinister nazi character - shame he had to sit a jail cell instead of helping to rebuild post war germany... waste...

[khukuri]

speer was one of the worst kind of nazis,

he had no ideological reason to suport the nazi regime than his own career and gain! Thats the worst cind of egoist who aceppt a nazi rule that waged war all over europe not because he believed in it but because he thought it would be fun to draw buildings for hitler and build them.

[StealthMode]

For many years the majority of civilian Germans didnt really realize the reality of what was happening with Hitler's cause. I have many germans friends that tell me their grandparents really didnt understand the scale, cause, and implications of what the REAL cause was and what was happening with the concnetration camps. Even when faced with stories, proof or facts, it still seemed outlandish.

[khukuri]

For many years the majority of civilian Germans didnt really realize the reality of what was happening with Hitler's cause. I have many germans friends that tell me their grandparents really didnt understand the scale, cause, and implications of what the REAL cause was and what was happening with the concnetration camps. Even when faced with stories, proof or facts, it still seemed outlandish.

I ve heard many times that not many germans new about the concetration camps. Ok, let that one go, However they still invaded theyre neighbours and waged wars.
You always hear ppl trying to justify normal peoples behaving during crimes like theese in order to wipe out the historical image. We didnt know etc etc And its not just i germany ww2, In balkan today and in many periods its typical. Its not like hitler said lets hold hands and sing songs in his speech. I dont blame the german population but they werent completly innocent either.

However that wasnt the discussion, Albert speer wasnt any ordinary german who had no idea. He was the cind of type who made it possible for people like hitler to make his evil plans. You this type of person every where, Iraqi sceintist who helped to gas the kurds etc etc its people

[tsuri]

For many years the majority of civilian Germans didnt really realize the reality of what was happening with Hitler's cause

Maybe. But not Speer. He had KZ Inmates working on his Projects, visited various Deathcamps and was as close to Hitler than you could get without being Eva.

Those Plans are always interesting to look at. But most of the Buildings look way too massive for my taste.

[Vandervahn]

The question of collective guilt is not applicable to Albert Speer. The man was a close intimus of Mr. Hitler, and later on one of the most important war ministers. He supported the hideous Nazi agenda and had enough knowledge of the atrocities, but decided to turn a blind eye. From a professional point of view, his position and good relation to Hitler gave him possibilities every artist phantasizes of in his wet dreams. From the ethic POV, it was disgraceful and he was rightfully imprisoned for it.

RE the article: I doubt that these were definitive plans, more some sort of What-If. This has several reasons: National Socialist only dealt with christian religion when they had to - after all Hitler is quoted as mocking Jesus because he was a jew. In fact they werent far from the socialist denial of giving religion an elevated position in society. Now if you are trying to replace common religious beliefs with your own ideology (the Nazi mythology), why would you recreate the very mundane symbol of christianity - the Vatican?

More possible would be that they studied the architecture to evaluate what would work within their indigenous plan of rebuilding Berlin in the form of "Welthauptstadt Germania". Though the architecture of this "Germania" was largely consisting of gargantuan romanistic buildings with heaps of cupolas and pillars, it was meant to be the ideological centre of the Nationalsocialist world - a decisively christian symbol would have betrayed that whole agenda. And yes, as was said before, Hitler despised Mussolini because he considered him a spineless and cowardly leader - which ultimately proved correct.

He wouldnt have given Mussolini more than a statue.

[Thor]

National Socialist only dealt with christian religion when they had to - after all Hitler is quoted as mocking Jesus because he was a jew.

I believe Hitler said that all prophets were false, but I can't remember anything specific about Jesus. I think the official NS view was supporting the theory that Jesus was the offspring of a roman soldier. Also have in mind that Hitler had a very catholic upbringing, I think he even sang in the boy's choir.

In fact they werent far from the socialist denial of giving religion an elevated position in society.

They were in fact far from that. Faith was one of the cornerstones and if I remember it correctly a person couldn't join SS unless he had marked "believer" on the application form.

He wouldnt have given Mussolini more than a statue.

I agree.

[Vandervahn]

...They were in fact far from that. Faith was one of the cornerstones and if I remember it correctly a person couldn't join SS unless he had marked "believer" on the application form....

"Religion" in the sense of the position of churches in the social web. It was intended to be replaced with the new retro-germanic ideology. Some parts of that were based on mythologics and old germanic beliefs, but only as structural foundings of the beliefs built on top of that - very common ideas like being part of an equal community, giving basic ideas and goals in life to aim at, defining social behaviour or organizing the authority/servant system. So basically the same thing as a religion does in practice, but without the dieties and clergy, and with the state and its people´s well-being at their center.

I have never heard of such a question in an SS "apllication form". Nevertheless it wouldnt be important because the SS more and more developmed into a microcosm of nordic mythologists (if they werent busy massacring someone). The SS is not an appropiate reflection of National Socialism in the german public.

[Kilgor]

However that wasnt the discussion, Albert speer wasnt any ordinary german who had no idea. He was the cind of type who made it possible for people like hitler to make his evil plans. You this type of person every where, Iraqi sceintist who helped to gas the kurds etc etc its people

History has judged speer quite kindly, but he was very close to the centre of power, ran the massive arms programs, and was a personal favourite of Hitler.
I find it hard to believe he wasnt aware of the industrial like murder of the reich's enemies.