Reply With QuoteThis thread is fantastic, never ceases to amaze me.
Keep them comin fellas.
Walter Hummel is still alive.
PK
This thread is fantastic, never ceases to amaze me.
Keep them comin fellas.
I posted this photo with original caption, but looking again, it looks like they helping German pilot, his shoulder boards look to thin to be Russian, bomber leather jacket, i don't remember those in SU (maybe LL, but US ones were slightly different, also i read that LL tanks were equipped with uniform, but never heard that planes were bundled with it too), and a hair-cut, in Russian pilots head gear helmet it can't be that pristine, also this bandaging thing for an enemy pilot (most hated guys by any grunt). Anyone?Originally Posted by Mousepad
WSS Pzgrenadiers interrogate wounded Soviet pilot, presumably 1943 - Kursk
Hmmmm.... I think you are right. It's leather jacket of Luftwaffe. He looks as the German pilot, not Russian...
photo
The above photo is most definitely a German Pilot beng assisted . How many times I have seen this photo with captions about "SS Torture POW "
A photo is a frozen moment of time ,it cannot lie, but is very often misinterpreted
Thanks guys for clearing things up.
because they are...
Damn! Poor guy
Whatever his nationality is, it looks like the grenadier (who, btw, is a motorcyclist, note position of his gasmask canister) is simply stepping across the ****e pilot in order to render assistance.The above photo is most definitely a German Pilot beng assisted . How many times I have seen this photo with captions about "SS Torture POW "
A photo is a frozen moment of time ,it cannot lie, but is very often misinterpreted
Although the Waffen-SS is frequently considered an elite organization not all of its units were actually elite. Some Waffen-SS units formed after 1943 had less than ideal combat records. This was in part due to the fact that the number of volunteers eligible for service in the Waffen-SS shrank as the war continued while the need for replacements increased. The number of conscripts taken into the Waffen-SS of lesser quality or questionable ability had a direct impact on combat effectiveness.
After WWII ended the Waffen-SS was condemned at the Nurnberg Trials as a criminal organization. This was in part due to a series of high profile atrocities and because of their connection to the SS and NSDAP. Only those who were conscripted into the Waffen-SS were exempt from the Nurnberg declaration. As a result Waffen-SS veterans were generally denied the rights and benefits granted to other WWII German veterans. Waffen-SS prisoners of war were often held in strict confinement and were treated harshly by the Soviets. Many foreign volunteers that served in the Waffen-SS were also treated severely by their national governments. In the years since WWII there have been attempts to rehabilitate the image and legality of Waffen-SS veterans, both through legislation and in published works by former officers like Paul Hausser (Soldaten wie andere auch - Soldiers Like Any Other). To this day the stigma on veterans from the Waffen-SS remains.
http://www.feldgrau.com/main1.php?ID=5
Any pictures on how they were dressed at their trials? Before and afters would be good.
Last edited by magron; 02-01-2009 at 04:49 PM.
It was their uniform stripped of any insignia or award.
A well-known shot of two exhausted members of SS-Fallschirmjäger-Btl 500, taken near the Memel river by a Heer Panzer Sergeant.
True.
Not true. As with any large military organisation, some units were more effective than others but you can't really attribute this to whether recruits happen to be volunteers or conscripts. There were plenty of late-war Waffen-SS units with formidable combat records, many of whose members were conscripts.Some Waffen-SS units formed after 1943 had less than ideal combat records. This was in part due to the fact that the number of volunteers eligible for service in the Waffen-SS shrank as the war continued while the need for replacements increased. The number of conscripts taken into the Waffen-SS of lesser quality or questionable ability had a direct impact on combat effectiveness.
True.After WWII ended the Waffen-SS was condemned at the Nurnberg Trials as a criminal organization. This was in part due to a series of high profile atrocities and because of their connection to the SS and NSDAP.
Not true, as such. The Waffen-SS was condemned as a criminal organisation but no member of the Waffen-SS was deemed to be a criminal unless he had committed criminal acts. This also applied to men from the old pre- and early war SS-VT, as well as the SS-TK.Only those who were conscripted into the Waffen-SS were exempt from the Nurnberg declaration.
True, hence the establishment of the HIAG, amongst other aid groups for veterans.As a result Waffen-SS veterans were generally denied the rights and benefits granted to other WWII German veterans.
Not just by the Soviets. Members of the Leibstandarte, in particular of Kampfgruppe Peiper, were tortured by US military personnel into confessing to the Malmédy atrocity. Waffen-SS men were also ill-treated and sometimes summarily executed by Western Allied personnel.Waffen-SS prisoners of war were often held in strict confinement and were treated harshly by the Soviets.
Many foreign volunteers that served in the Waffen-SS were also treated severely by their national governments.
True. Amongst the more distasteful examples of this was the treatment of volunteers for the struggle against Bolshevism, like Eric Brørup, by the Danish authorities after the war, despite the fact that it was not only legal for Danish nationals to serve in the German armed forces but the Danish King specifically gave his blessing to Danes who wished to enlist in the Wehrmacht and the Waffen-SS.
A former cavalry officer in the Danish Arrmy, Eric Brørup served in a number of Waffen-SS units, including the Florian Geyer Cavalry Division and the SS-Fallschirmjäger-Btl, where he was posted to the Field Training Company. He is seen above in this photo, taken in the autumn of 1944 in Hungary. He ended the war with the Reconnaissance Detachment of the Wiking Division and spent two and a half years as a POW of the Americans and the British. Sentenced afterwards to a further two-and-a-half years by a Danish court, Brørup was fortunate in having his sentence reduced to time already served and he was released after eight months. Other Danes were not as lucky. Brørup served with the Canadian Army Reserve in the Alberta Dragoons in 1959/1960, earning his Army Pilot Wings and was later a cadet officer. He is still alive.
In another famous SS-Fallschirmjäger image, of the Battalion CP at Drvar on 25.5.1944, moments before a partisan mortar round struck, killing the man wearing the glasses, we see Heinz Jamin writing in the signals log, watched in the background by Gunnar Baardseth, a Norwegian volunteer. Jamin survived, as did Baardseth, although the latter was later killed in action. Jamin is still alive. Baardseth was one of the B-Schützen or Bewährungs-Schützen, disciplinary cases on probation, offered the chance of rehabilitation on the battlefield, who formed a large proportion of the initial intake of the SS Parachute Battalion. In other photos I have of him, his blank probationer collar patches are visible.
Soldaten wie andere auch was a quote from a speech by West German leader Konrad Adenauer in 1953. Adenauer had every reason to despise Nazism, having been in a concentration camp, but he made a point of exculpating ordinary Waffen-SS officers and men who had served their country - and the cause of Western Civilisation - honourably.In the years since WWII there have been attempts to rehabilitate the image and legality of Waffen-SS veterans, both through legislation and in published works by former officers like Paul Hausser (Soldaten wie andere auch - Soldiers Like Any Other).
Less so. As time passes and the grip of the Thought Police slackens - except in Germany itself, of course - more and more people are reconsidering the blanket demonisation of the Waffen-SS. Don't get me wrong! I'm not an apologist for the Hitler regime or anything like that but I have known quite a few Waffen-SS veterans, including foreign volunteers from France, Denmark, Norway and other countries, and most of them signed up not to fight for Nazism but to fight against Bolshevism, which was rightly perceived in the 1930s and 1940s as an aggressively expansionist political philosophy. Reasonably informed people also knew how murderous the Bolsheviks were and tended to take the view in the case of Western strongmen like Hitler, Mussolini, Franco, Antonesceu and others that it was a case of fighting fire with fire.To this day the stigma on veterans from the Waffen-SS remains.
Standard German-issue uniform bereft of insignia and decorations or, in some cases, British and American fatigues.Any pictures on how they were dressed at their trials? Before and afters would be good.
Posting Permissions
