Reply With QuoteYou are so right...a piece of equipment is not like a dogdagOriginally Posted by gaijinsamurai
Every fallen soldiers should be given the same respect
I used to reenact as a German panzer grenadier and fallschirmjager, and showed the photos to my late uncle, who fought in the Battle of the Bulge. He found the photos impressive and amusing, but was by no means offended.
You are so right...a piece of equipment is not like a dogdag
Every fallen soldiers should be given the same respect
Interesting question.
Have you know about The International Court over Nazi military criminals in Nuremberg? Many Nazi have received punishment as a death penalty and have been hung up. Others Nazi have been condemned on different imprisonment terms. In particular for life. Have you know about nazi criminal Gess?
Your question "... Why the German POWs were kept prisioner, mainly in Russia, for such a loooong time?..." not clever. It as... How loooong The International Court held Nazi criminal Gess in prison?...
All German soldiers who was POW in Russia have been condemned in The Soviet People Court. As in The International Court all German POW have received punishment by The Soviet People Court... They have received different terms in prison for military crimes on the Russian, Ukr..,Bel.., territory. Even life imprisonment. Yes, The Soviet people have forgiven German soldiers ahead of schedule. German soldiers have received preschedule clearing and have returned in Germany in 1955.
The International community didn't forgot German prisoners. They have possibility of check of the maintenance of German prisoners. They have communications with German prisoners. All German prisoners contained in Soviet prison under The International laws. They have all necessary..., medicine..., food and have mail from relatives. But Russian soldiers in German prisons and concentration camps died. Russian soldiers haven't food, medicine, warm ..., post... Where InterCom was in that time? May be InterCom was forgot that the Russian soldiers are human too???
We talk about different thinks. US soldiers and Iraqi soldiers in different situation. You understand the lines of ethics in dogtags problem but don't understand the line of different between Wars, between you mission in Kuwait... Is you from Kuwait? Are you Kuwaitmen? Do your relatives live in Kuwait? Have you missing(dead or killed) of your relatives (mother, children...) in Kuwait by Iraq soldiers?
Same only one - we enemy..., and respect each other (may be)...
But somebody don't understand the situation about dogtags. May be my English is bad... But I have explained the official situation about dogtags. If someone has found a dogtag that he must informs about it to Govstateoffice. It is a civil and human debt. It is the law. But... The dogtag is a simple thing. It isn't the symbol for prays. It is simply thing. It isn't the sacred thing. For relatives of the mis.soldier it is a symbol and memory but not for all. This thing is not necessary (like thing) for the official governments of Russia and Germany or archives. They interesting only in info of dogtags. They haven't warehouses for "breakage" storage. Archives take only photos or copies (on papers) of dogtags. Same about dogtags of German soldiers or Russian soldiers. The government allows to leave it as a souvenir for the founder (who found the dogtag in the ground or...). Or you prefer to throw out dogtags on a dustbin(dump)? The another matter if somebody does not inform about dogtags and the name of the missing soldier remains to unknown persons. This is blasphemy... This is stupidly... But to have dogtag as souvenir after official procedure of an identification. These are different affairs... I talk about official situation...
Church's sacred crosses are on sale. It things too... The main it this is relation of people to sacred things...
And.... About Nazi soldier....
I think some people forget who was SS Nazi soldier... Whey was aggressors, they killed children, woman, old people. They want to the war for kill, for fascist-nazi ideology, for took people's life, ... They was animals with human faces (in our forum we see photos of Waffen SS - they was simple people on photos, they had mothers-wifes-children but they did terrible)... . Go to Russia, Belorussia, Ukraine, Poland and ask people about Nazi soldiers... Did German soldiers or Waffen SS "just fighting for their country" in Russia or in Poland??? Are you st...??? We understand about old Nazi's time in Germany. Some German people had two choices could be Nazi or could be dead. BUT!!! We see many doc. and see films about ocean happy Germans have hand-"hile"-Hitler, happy smiles and louds... And they went to war and killed with smiles... German people had choice - Hitler..., and killed Englishmen, Poles, Russian, American.... Only in the end of the War when Germans have understood of their f..ckingfail. Their understood that it f..ckinghappiness went to the end..., and they have decided to kill Hitler. But it was few people. All wished to be at War to the END and even more death... In Russia there is a floor board: "To Die so with music!" (If to die that all)...
And I agree with BillyShears. Yes it clever old idea - "All the waffen SS should have been hung". But after the International court for their crimes. And the Court was in Nurnberg. Also we know that SS is named by the Court like the criminal organization and all members of this organization should be condemned. Have you forgotten?
And somebody talk about "respect".... "Respect" for killers???? "Respect" for killers dogtags, swastika, SS????
I think we must have respect for this soldiers only like the human, like the our history...
I understand you (some) are German but just think before a writing (about "respect for SS soldiers" and "pretty smart coment")...
These are very thin thoughts, it is very thin side... We can offend real victim. We should be constrained.
We can look frostily and easy at photos, on equipment, on signs but we should not forget history and a reality.
Last edited by Bachelor; 01-23-2008 at 10:25 AM.
Nazi soldiers did not care of the killed Russian soldiers. Nazi loved photographed (with) dead Russian. German-Nazi soldiers did not bury the killed Russian soldiers. They simply threw bodies... And some speak about respect and want respect German soldiers...
Question to German soldiers on photos... What you looking for? Where are you have looking? Soon all of you will be dead in Russia... There is nothing to look let's to bury Russian soldiers...
Last edited by Bachelor; 01-23-2008 at 10:37 AM.
Do you want to start another flame war?
That what happend is history.
And just another tip...put a graphic warning on your last post
From Poland.
SS deserved all the hate (Waffen SS tooo). For things they do to Jews and Polish partisans and civilians (read about Warsaw uprising). And they served in Auschwitz, Treblinka etc.
But I understand that they look cool on photos...
Some violent people have begun the court over Waffen SS. I have not restrained and have reminded of history and horrors of war... I think the flame on court, about ideology be finished now. I suggest to look interesting historical photos, to discuss ammunition, uniform and arms.... But don't forget history.
Bachelor: Before you start a self-righteous flame war, you might want to Google "Katyn Forest".
No problemo. I don't need in Goog as somebody. I know the history of my country. In Katynsky Forest was killed Poles milmen by the special unit of People's Commissariat of Internal Affairs. These are force of protection Gylag camps. These force as SS in Nazi Germany. But it is not Russian people. Only real murderers were employed in that force units. They have killed many simple Soviet people including a lot of officers of Red Army - real heroes and professional military man. These people haven't fighting in war. They protected prisons, camp and shot condemned. They shot receding Soviet soldiers by machine guns. They stay after frontline, behind the army Entrenchments. But it is small Stalin-Beria's force. Military men, front-line soldiers did not serve in these force. These people hide like criminals now and old time.
I believe covering the face of the dead (top pic) is a show of respect. As for the other pics, I don't see any smiles or mockery. It's just the missery of war, and further down the road there's probably dead Germans as well. These pics don't support your claims.
here are some fotos of my collection of the waffen ss
kids? thats always shocking me
these are members of the 12th ss panzerdivision HITLERJUGEND
concisting out of 17 and 18 year old young man from the hitlerjugend and a cadre of veterans from the leibstandarte
The Marines in my own platoon took photos of dead Iraqi soldiers during Operation Desert Storm.
My point?
War brings out the best AND worst, in everyobody. No country excluded.
Yes, we know that many members of the Wehrmacht and Waffen SS committed atrocities. That is beyong dispute, and has been discussed numerous times on this thread already.
But to ignore the fact that many members of the German military fought honorably, if even for a terrible regime, is to deny the truth.
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