Archive Thread 4 - SEAL sniper manual question

[AnniHilatoR]

Who the hell quotes CSI miami for their technical knowledge in a post.

Don't take it too seriously mog, I'm sure Justin knows better than to trust CSI Miami.

Russian Snipers use a crap weapon system with limited training. They employ a weapon that shoots a 2 moa group for god sakes. The optics are crap, and the ammo is junk.

I'd have to disagree with you here. Although Russian conscripts have bad equipment, Russian snipers - like the special forces - are given much better equipment. Take the V-94 anti-materiel sniper rifle, housed for the 12.7x108mm armour-piercing round. Or the new SVDK sniper rifle which uses the new 9.3x64mm cartridge, and has a POS 13 x 60 13-power telescopic sight.

And besides, if they did in fact have crap equipment and **** training, wouldn't that mean that they are very good at adapting and learning? I recently saw a documentary about Russian snipers in Chechnya, and from the looks of things, they are doing a pretty good job (despite their poo poo equipment and ****ty training that mog has cared to share with us.) As for the MOA of Russian rifles, I wouldn't know. I'm not an expert as some people pretend to be *cough*

[Justin]

Kidding or not it was still funny.

Proper evidence is all in the eye of the beholder. There are actually quite a few trained snipers on this board from a few different countries. Inter service rivalries aside they provide pretty good info, all people have to do is stop siting books they've read or guys they've heard about long enough to listen....

Yes, the point was to get people laughing.

Anyways, i agree. I just thought that I might give my point of view on the whole matter. Obviously mogsniper94 has an extensive knowledge on snipers and sniping, respect. (I think i pissed him off) lol...

[California Joe]

See, I don't know how long you lurked before posting, but judging by the number of "experts" that tend to come out of the woodwork on these kinds of threads it was entirely plausible that someone would actually quote CSI Miami as a source around here.

[jtv3062]

no go on ol Johnny plasters book. US Marines zero there scopes at 800 meters. Marines have 10x power scopes so its a handicap at close ranges the police and other militarys may use variable scopes which help at the close up shots

[Justin]

See, I don't know how long you lurked before posting, but judging by the number of "experts" that tend to come out of the woodwork on these kinds of threads it was entirely plausible that someone would actually quote CSI Miami as a source around here.

I was kidding about CSI Miami!!! LOL!!! I just remembered it from the episode about that ex-Marine sniper killing these 3 people from a roof top... And the main character who knows everything, like got it in seconds. XD

[maw]

jtv3062 - here's a rule: don't shoot down a suggestion without coming up with an alternative.

i'm not high speed but i do some precision shooting here in nc (300, 600 and 1,000). i personally didn't learn anything worth talking about from plasters' book, but i feel it's a good first step for someone. another alternative is to go on snipershide and read through the thread archives. once, you've done alll that, get a rig and shoot it, after that save some coin grab your rig and attend chandler sniper 1 & 2 at blackwater.

mirror - the nsw book is outdated and spends more time on how to pack your war bag and sea bag then on rangefinding, reading the wind, camo, stalking etc. at least flick through the plaster book. it would be helpful if you could be more specific regarding what you are looking for.

mogsniper94 - i agree with what you've said (especially the part about the merits of scout sniper school). having said that, nsw sniper training has come a long way (pm me if you wanna know), however not all team schools are equal to others. i was told its a budget thing and some teams have different operational priorities.

no go on ol Johnny plasters book. US Marines zero there scopes at 800 meters. Marines have 10x power scopes so its a handicap at close ranges the police and other militarys may use variable scopes which help at the close up shots

[AlexNenadic]

I recently saw a documentary about Russian snipers in Chechnya, and from the looks of things, they are doing a pretty good job

You must be referring to the documentary posted on this forum a few weeks ago? If anything, it shows a very low level of competence on their part. I am sure they are brave and all that, but they don't seem to have the basics of marksmanship down.

[jtv3062]

I just felt that others already gave good alternatives. John was not a military sniper. it is good good strating point to get into military sniping heres a few links http://www.snipercentral.com/ http://snipersparadise.com/sniperchat/index.php? http://www.snipercountry.com/training.html

[mogsniper94]

no go on ol Johnny plasters book. US Marines zero there scopes at 800 meters. Marines have 10x power scopes so its a handicap at close ranges the police and other militarys may use variable scopes which help at the close up shots

Since when do we zero at 800 meters....? Its a cammed BDC scope. zero it at 300 and just put the dope on from there. A scope with a bullet drop compensator if far superior for field sniping. Ever try to count 50 clicks in the dark under stress??? I dint think so ... But i listened to my buddy do it often enough. It was hard to hear over his cursing.

AS far as variables go...who needs them...??? They have a tendency to break alot more often than fixed power(common sense). IF some other military sniper is taking 200yard shots he will be dead soon.

Why in the world would i want to take close range shots??? Let the bucket head hit those with their ACOGS... When u operate in a combat envirionment you shouldnt be firing at targets under 300 yards!! If u do , just ask for the return fire to be hot heavy and within the effective range of your enemys weapons. You mite get the occasional chip shot, but you don't want to make it a habit.

AND I was hoping that CSI thing was a joke.
ANYMORE TALK OF MY BELOVED CORPS IN ANY MANOR OTHER THEN RESPECTFUL REVERENCE WILL BE DELT WITH BY ME ESTABLISHING A HIDE SITE IN YOUR MOMS PANTS.

[jtv3062]

I was talking about those sniper comps they have stages where they shoot up close and thats where the police snipers shine. in one report thats where the marines took a beating cause of the ten power scopes. and the 800 meter thing I took right out of Johns book so see what I mean. the 3062 is my plt no at MCRDSD 1990.

[Midav]

SEALS suck at sniping. In Mogadishu they took 100 shots at the port, and hit ****(they blamed high winds). They got pulled out and snipers from 1st Force went in there, and 1 MARINE got 22 kills in an afternoon.

Somalia

John Fuger Somalia U.S.M.C 6

Cory Smith Somalia U.S.M.C 6

Stephen Tyson Somalia U.S.M.C 6

Chase Hamilton Somalia U.S.M.C 5

Patrick McFadden Grenada
Somalia U.S.M.C 3/3

Eldon Noble Somalia U.S.M.C 3

David E. Galloway Somalia U.S.M.C 3

Chris Mark Somalia U.S.M.C 2

Julio A. Garcia Somalia U.S.M.C 1

Bill Cook Somalia U.S.M.C 1*

John Henry Davis III Somalia U.S. Army 0

Gary I. Gordon Somalia U.S. Army ?

Randall D. Shughart Somalia U.S. Army ?

* denotes unconfirmed kills (F) denotes Female sniper

http://www.snipercentral.com/snipers.htm#SOMALIA

[mogsniper94]

I wish I had time to shoot a competition...

For sniper country u have to submit your info. They aint out looking for it.... Id give ya the name but then..id have ta kill yaaaa. ITs missing alot of names believe me.

Cops are poor snipers believe me. They need a warm cop car within 200 feet or else its a violation of union bylaws. They don't think like warriors they are cops. I showed up for my first call-out with a ground mat. I was uniformly laughed at as the "soft Former Jarhead".. The callout went for over 24 hours and the temp dropped below freezing. I was snuggleduggly warm. PPPPPP.

P prior
P planning
P prevents
P piss
p poor
p performance

Who does god have a hard on for...? OH that right...MARINES..
Its sunday im bored sorry if im being over the top. I just hate those dumb Sniper comps.. All the best snipers are on deployment and some slub from Vegas gets a trophy.

[Midav]

Ok. Understand, this is the first I have heard anything about 22 kills in one afternoon or even about Seal's missing their targets on every shot.

I am NOT saying you are lying or incorrect, because I could very well be.

But, until evidence is shown, I will just take what you posted with a grain of salt...

[mogsniper94]

Did u see my post about 4 who flunked first Marine Division school?? 1 for cheating.. It is the truth.. The guy who got 22 kills spotter is my new partner. No lie. Somalia was a shooting gallery. The seals are not the gods gift.. The kill house on Pendleton, if you miss the target you have to circle the shothole in the wall and put name and unit.. It is covered with seal names.
We MArines have one claim to fame..Shooting skills.

You got get out and see the stuff to believe it. Im sure they hit a few. They didt have a great history in sniping.. For god sakes they used a Blind box mcmillian stock and and a B&L tactical....not the best combo.

U Fire me scenarios ill give u stories. Did u see the video that got SEALS banned from guarding HAmid Kharzi??? The one where the seal sprays the crowd of innocent bystanders...

Im sorry I support all our warriors but they cancelled training for a photo shoot 1 time.

[Midav]

Did u see my post about 4 who flunked first Marine Division school?? 1 for cheating.. It is the truth.. The guy who got 22 kills spotter is my new partner. No lie. Somalia was a shooting gallery. The seals are not the gods gift.. The kill house on Pendleton, if you miss the target you have to circle the shothole in the wall and put name and unit.. It is covered with seal names.
We MArines have one claim to fame..Shooting skills.

You got get out and see the stuff to believe it. Im sure they hit a few. They didt have a great history in sniping.. For god sakes they used a Blind box mcmillian stock and and a B&L tactical....not the best combo.

U Fire me scenarios ill give u stories. Did u see the video that got SEALS banned from guarding HAmid Kharzi??? The one where the seal sprays the crowd of innocent bystanders...

Im sorry I support all our warriors but they cancelled training for a photo shoot 1 time.

I never said the Seal's were the best.. never said the same about Marines either.

Only thing I said was that I never heard of either the Seal's missing all the shots in an engagement, nor of anyone in Somalia getting 22 kills in one afternoon. You could very well be correct and have not denied that.

Yet, until evidence is shown, I will take what you said with a grain of salt.