Reply With QuoteIF you come across more Abe Foxman stuff post it up man, this was good
Religion In America
Religion In America
Speech by Abraham H. Foxman,
National Director of the Anti-Defamation League
Hardly a day goes by that some preacher or politician doesn't make the statement that all he or she wants to do is bring America back to the intent of the Founding Fathers to build a Christian America. History tells a different story.
History tells us that our first two presidents, who certainly qualify as founding fathers, made the intent crystal clear in the Barbary Treaties of Peace and Friendship signed in 1796. Article 11 begins "as the government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian religion…" That treaty was written under George Washington and signed by John Adams, who emphasized that his ratification included every word of the Treaty.
References to God in the documents that gave birth to this remarkable Republic were just that, general references to God, not particularistic references to Jesus. And for many years, even the most zealous evangelicals sensitively used the term "Judeo-Christian" when referring to our religious heritage. Not so now. The "Judeo" has all but disappeared. And everyone who has flourished under our balanced system must be concerned about a movement to unbalance American society and American life.
When D. James Kennedy, head of Coral Ridge Ministries, says "our job is to reclaim America for Christ no matter what the cost…and to exercise godly dominion…over every aspect and institution of human society", that is a frightening echo of the old world, not the new world, not the America that has made those of every persuasion welcome.
When the Texas G.O.P. Platform says the United States is a Christian nation and that the separation of church and state is a myth, that is not merely a matter of free expression, that is an expression of exclusion.
When Congressman Gresham Barrett of South Carolina tries to end-run the federal courts by introducing legislation permitting public officials to pray openly at a public meeting invoking the name of a specific deity…and then says that those who don't like it can leave the room…that's not the tolerant, inclusive mosaic this nation was designed to be.
When the Salvation Army, which receives government funds, fires or refuses to hire people who will not fill out a form professing their belief in Jesus and advising which church they attend and how often, that is creating a hostile environment and…because they receive those government funds…in effect funding outright discrimination...stopping Jews and others from keeping or getting a job for which they are qualified. There is a legal exemption that permits churches, synagogues and some religious-based organizations to spend their own money as they see fit, and hire whoever they please, including only those who conform to their organization's religious beliefs.
http://www.adl.org/religious_freedom...in_america.asp
An interesting opinion from Abe Foxman whom I have taken a liking to recently.
IF you come across more Abe Foxman stuff post it up man, this was good
He's right. No argument here
The entire article is better than the parts quoted here... it must be made clear that the objective of the piece is not to slam Christianity, nor should it be.
I think it's a fallacy to argue that American Christianity is automagically a non-inclusive brand of thought. If, for instance, I were to say that all Arab versions of Islam are hateful towards Christianity, wouldn't that sort of generalization be hateful in itself?
There are a few Christians who are not quite in the mainstream of how things should be done... but to describe their Christianity as an automagic reason that they are wrong - that is not a fair statement.
Is Christianity AT ODDS with American Democracy? Absolutely not... Christian Reformation, with the elevation of an individual's role in his/her own personal salvation, did help generate an atmosphere that fostered the ruggedly individualist American style of democracy.
Don't buy that bit about American Christianity and Democracy? How about this... I think about the God of Abraham Lincoln and the Reverend Dr. Martin Luther King Jr., and I know that their faith helped guide them towards the logical conclusions of democracy and freedom. (Just look how the anti-religious people remove references to God/the Creator from the great speeches & great documents of American democracy when they quote from those things)
So this is why I think the extreme end of anti-Christianity out there is wrong... (same with the anti-Muslims & anti-Jews & others). Religion is not at odds with democracy until the so-called "freedom lovers" go out of their way to make reasonably religious people into outlaws.
the religion movement is really starting to take hold.It's unfortunate though that it's not in the "Christ like" manner that i was told jesus used to spread the word.Now it's more join or die sinner.It may not be everyone's sentiment,but that's how it comes across when i hear a religious person on the news.i'm sure not many of the"right"kind of folks will be invited/allowed to live in the new holy city that's currently being built around Ave Maria college in Fla.I guarentee you,you won't see many if any homeless persons around.i'll be surprised if a shelter of some sort is built.before anyone gets rilled up,i'm not slamming religion,but from my early yrs,ive never met a priest with a media contract,a mega church,or a bentley..false phrophets to me is what they are.
So if us "religious types" are so bad, what do you think about this:
Is this guy a religious nut?Originally Posted by some guy
I'd rather have MORE people like the guy that I quoted.
Christianity is not the problem here.
...
Besides, the inalienable rights of man given by the Creator are part of American democracy.
Without our God-given rights, what rights do you have? The cruel, random, Darwinist universe gave you nothing but the obligation to dominate anything beneath you.
Religion is not the problem.it's how it is used to make earthly gains and satisfy one's earthly desires.As well how it's used as a political means to an end.i see religion as a guide as how to co-exist with all the other people God saw fit to put on earth.Nothing more or less than that.the God given rights you speak of are just that.however there are those who would speak for God and deny some people of those rights.For ex,discrimination has/still is by some ,justified by those who believe it God's will.to say that God put us all here,and said those who aren't of said race/faith etc are assed out.fcuk off isn't something i can envision.But there are those who would interpret as such,and so you have past present problems.Christianity,judiasm,buddism,islam,etc aren't the problem.It's how people interpret and act upon those interpretations that's the real problem.
This I agree with.
That's the issue that I have with the quotes in the first post of this article... taken out of context, they spell out a rationale why people should be fearful of Christians/are justified in imposing strict limits on Christian freedoms.
The actual number of radical, anti-freedom Christians are not that large. And Reverend Phelps of Kansas is no Christian, but a Lawyer with a clan of Lawyers who sue people & operate under the cover of religion in order to use the system to their advantage.
A number of people use religion to their advantage. A number of people use race-based politics to their own personal advantage. A number of people use the abortion issue to their own personal advantage. A number of people use the war to their own personal advantage.
If anything, it's not the fault of religion that these types of things happen... I think that it's the actual LACK of religion (especially a humanist approach to faith) that is the issue... Catholic Priests who molest boys, Muslim Imams who tell the faithful to go blow themselves up & the dummies who blow themselves up in the name of Allah, etc etc. These problems come from a lack of understanding of faith, in my opinion.
And I guess that's really my main disagreement with parts of Foxman's speech.
A good article...
This nation was, and still is a predominantly Christian nation.
The difference between now and then is this:
Our founding fathers, self-acknowledged men of god, believed in certain concepts of liberty and freedom, and those words were what prevailed int he culture till the 1900s.
There was no pledge of allegiance, there was no use of god on our script and coin.
The "fight" against communism and radical religious fundamentalism changed this though and what we have today is now a fight between people that wish to keep or return (depending on how you look at it) to our original roots where people practiced their faith, it was a part of life and culture, but it was not our nation AND those that wish to rewrite history claiming that our founding fathers, erroneously, wanted god in all our lives and that the Christian faith is not only the true faith (not too sure which Christian sect we would choose) but should be in your face and part of your everyday life, like it or not.
I'll even go as far to say that such religious zeal, is not only scary, but pushing us on a course that is far from healthy, undermining our science in an age where science is the core to our continued existence, undermining our education, when our education is at a low not seen since before we announced the space race with the Russians, and undermining relationships between neighbors that would normally live in peaceful coexistence and causing them to take sides.
People get along great with their own faith, even if their neighbor is different. Its when the morons come in and start stirring the pot that things change and the dark things happen.
Excellent post.
It will be interesting to say the least in the next 50 years with the advances in the scientific community and how Religion in general reacts to them. Religious folks are already feeling under attack, they are not. One side progresses at a ever increasing rate and the other side appears to want to move even farther back.
Personally I think their overall objection to stem cell reaserch is downright criminal.
The religious zeal in this country scares the crap out of me.
honestly i believe all the religious zealotry is a combination of a very strong(to put it mildly)desire for power,and the strong belief that we are infact living in the "end times."There's a whole book in the bible devoted to this and to interpret it improperly would serve the purpose of those who would exploit the fear that is embodied with it.i honestly believe that those "faithful" who are in power or would hope to be,would let things happen(i.e mass scale loss of life)in order to fulfill the phophecy.if it sounds a little extreme,look at some of the events in history based on "faith."faith is good,but God also gave common sense.blind faith however is a dangerous thing.
Please, please tell me you're joking here..this is too good to be serious..
What rights exactly has God given you??
Of course, SOME of the people on the other side of the coin do not make these problems any better, especially those that mock people's faith and who, rather than having made attempts to have a dialogue simply mock and try to be offensive.
We have some revisionist history going on here. To try to say that God somehow snuck in as part of the Cold war is just silly. All the original colonies, with the exception of Jamestown I believe, were religious colonies. The first words of the Mayflower Compact (signed while floating off Provincetown) began "In the name of God, Amen."
Even by the late 1700's, church attendance ran around 80% with a boom in church construction.
The Continental-Confederation Congress, which governed the US from 1774 to 1789 appointed chaplains for every armed service. Prayers were compulsory, as Christian morality was imposed on the Armed forces. They made land grants to promote Christianity among the Indians. National days of "fasting and prayer" were appointed. Official doctrine held that the nation was bound to God himself - and that anything bad that befell the nation (wars etc) were divine punishment for sin, and must be responded to with repentance and reformation.
The original Thanksgiving Day proclamation by Congress contains the language "join the penitent confession of their manifold sins . . . that it may please God, through the merits of Jesus Christ, mercifully to forgive and blot them out of remembrance".
In Washington's farewell address, Washington (an Episcopal vestryman) stated that religion was the source of all morality, and was "a necessary spring of popular government".
Today's religious rebirth is nothing new. We went through an evangelism boom in the 1800's - which was so fervent that many called it a national religion. State taxes supported churches in Massachusetts until 1833. Then of course we have the Mormons in Utah, Quakers, Amish etc. etc. This stuff is nothing new. It goes back and forth.
A lot of people find religion inconvenient or oppressive or whatever. That's fine, but they don't get to reinvent history to support their arguments against it. They're going to have to fight their fight using facts. Trying to say that the US does not have a passionately religious past, with a fair amount of it officially sanctioned is just nuts. Whether or not we should have it in the present or future is another story.
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