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Thread: TNI in Gallery (the New Photos)

  1. #1426

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    let's see again... hmmm.. after thinking again. i guess you right. the V-2 are the carbine version. and V-5 are the short barrel version... ooohhh.. i'm confuse

    i dont know much about guns/riffle... so i may make a mistake

  2. #1427
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    Quote Originally Posted by DavidDCM View Post
    Let's put together all Anti-Air assets that Indonesia has, if possible with the numbers. The 23mm is not the only one, at last.


    ZU-23 (or rather it's Chinese knockoff named Type 85, as Kopassus noted). 23 mm Twin Gun


    20mm Rh 202 Twin Gun


    57mm S-60 Gun


    Hispano Suiza 20mm Triple Mount on a M35 truck


    37mm M1939 Gun


    Not sure what this is. Possibly 40mm Bofors gun.

    So, the important questions are:
    - How many of each has TNI?
    - Which of them are just old, hand-aimed AA-guns and which of them are connected to radar, data-transfer and other fancy kinds of detection and battlefield management systems?
    Yes, AAA are not so usefull anymore. as one of us already said "only effective against low and slow flying UAVs and helicopters" (and Cessna's ofcourse). Cheap obsolete weaponry is only effective against cheap obsolete targets. Even with radarguidance you can not use stuff like S60 or type 85 against tactical cruisemissiles, HARMs and high/fast flying objects. So as a CIWS they are useless. Thats why its a joke that China wants to sell us the LD2000B system, a combination of QW-3 and S60. As far as i know, we have more than 200(!) S60. 40-50 Rapiers, 40-50 RBS70 and at least 1 set of the Kobra system, consist of 1 MMSR, 2 Battery Command Vehicle, 4 Poprad and 12 ZUR-23-2KG1 (= 2 batteries), plus 2 extra ZUR-23-2KG1. The 40mm onthe picture is maybe a 40L70. Oya, TNI-AU has 26 QW-3 launchers.

  4. #1429

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kopassus View Post
    Yes, AAA are not so usefull anymore. as one of us already said "only effective against low and slow flying UAVs and helicopters" (and Cessna's ofcourse). Cheap obsolete weaponry is only effective against cheap obsolete targets. Even with radarguidance you can not use stuff like S60 or type 85 against tactical cruisemissiles, HARMs and high/fast flying objects. So as a CIWS they are useless. Thats why its a joke that China wants to sell us the LD2000B system, a combination of QW-3 and S60. As far as i know, we have more than 200(!) S60. 40-50 Rapiers, 40-50 RBS70 and at least 1 set of the Kobra system, consist of 1 MMSR, 2 Battery Command Vehicle, 4 Poprad and 12 ZUR-23-2KG1 (= 2 batteries), plus 2 extra ZUR-23-2KG1. The 40mm onthe picture is maybe a 40L70. Oya, TNI-AU has 26 QW-3 launchers.
    according to sipri.org, we have 150 RBS-70, and more than 600 Rapier MK.1 (link:http://armstrade.sipri.org/arms_trad...e_register.php[FONT=Times])[/FONT] ... and for the QW's, now we have 200 QW-3...

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    Quote Originally Posted by karbol View Post
    according to sipri.org, we have 150 RBS-70, and more than 600 Rapier MK.1 (link:http://armstrade.sipri.org/arms_trad...e_register.php[FONT=Times])[/FONT] ... and for the QW's, now we have 200 QW-3...
    i think these numbers are missiles, not launchers.
    For example, for the KOBRA system we received more than 76 missiles.

  6. #1431
    Member DavidDCM's Avatar
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    Thanks to Kopassus, karbol and all others for their informative answers.

    I ran the internet for reliable informations. Jane's has this (very confusing ) piece for free. For the full article you have to pay.
    Dated: Sep 11, 2008 (so barely 3 weeks old)
    Indonesia
    Inventory
    Surface-to-Air MissilesMistralMistral 2 (ATLAS)Rapier 51 Mk 1 (to be replaced by the Kobra by the end of 2008)RBS 70 plus Giraffe radar systemKobra (2 Polish air-defence system that utilises the Poprad and Grom 2 missiles. The first of these systems was delivered in January 2008 with the second due in 2009.QW-3 used by peace keeping force deployed in Lebanon

    http://www.janes.com/extracts/extrac.../jlad0336.html

    This is how I understand it:
    TNI has 51 Rapier Mk 1 launchers and an undisclosed number of Mistral 2 (aka Atlas), RBS-70 and QW-3 missiles.

    The RBS-70 is coupled with the Giraffe radar.

    The Kobra is intended to replace the Rapier. They plan to buy 2 systems. One is already there, one comes next year.

  7. #1432
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    Quote Originally Posted by littlehui View Post
    no joke, CIWS works exactly the way you describe a joke. CIWSs in fact, are designed to defeat very fast and extremely fast targets.
    Read more carefully. He said that the current AA-guns of Indonesia are useless as CIWS exactly because they are unable to defeat very fast to extremely fast targets. They are only able to hit non moving or very slow moving targets.

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    Quote Originally Posted by spiderweb6969 View Post
    1 of the many paratroopers nightmares....

    Anybody know to the paratrooper, is he survive...?

  9. #1434
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    No sorry needed, my English is far from perfect, too.

    But still, I doubt that manually aimed AA-guns can provide real protection against modern aircraft. They have limited range, and if they are manually aimed their reaction time is way too slow to be a serious threat to a fast moving jet. But of course, they are better than nothing, and proper training can do a lot for their effectivity.

    But for the numbers, I could find this source (don't know how reliable, though):
    Click me ...hope it works

    S-60: 200
    Bofors: 90
    Rh 202: 125
    RBS-70: 42
    Rapier: 51

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    seems that i do saw tavor in TNI inventory
    do TNI bought it directly from israel or from other company?

    (and they do send peacekeeper to lebanon right? don't they interested in changing their camouflage into 'desert' environment?)

  11. #1436
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    Quote Originally Posted by DavidDCM View Post
    No sorry needed, my English is far from perfect, too.

    But still, I doubt that manually aimed AA-guns can provide real protection against modern aircraft. They have limited range, and if they are manually aimed their reaction time is way too slow to be a serious threat to a fast moving jet. But of course, they are better than nothing, and proper training can do a lot for their effectivity.

    But for the numbers, I could find this source (don't know how reliable, though):
    Click me ...hope it works

    S-60: 200
    Bofors: 90
    Rh 202: 125
    RBS-70: 42
    Rapier: 51
    S-60: 200
    Bofors 40L70: 90
    Rheinmetal Rh 202: 125
    Bofors RBS-70: 42
    BAe Rapier Mk1: 51

    I think this is reliable, but the source is not really up to date. We do not have Penguins anti ship missile, and i think only the Navy has the Mistral on its ships. Some sources says Fatahillah class and Ahmad Yani Class have the Mistral, but other sources not, litlle bit confusing.
    There are plans to arm Indonesian made APCs with a Mistral launcher...

  12. #1437
    Member DavidDCM's Avatar
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    They have at least some mistakes. For example the document says that TNI has 50 Condor APC which to my best knowledge is not true. In Southeast Asia only Malaysia and Thailand have the Condor, Indonesia not.

    Another photo of the Hispano Suiza (HS) 20mm triple mount:


  13. #1438

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    Quote Originally Posted by ayanami_tard View Post
    seems that i do saw tavor in TNI inventory
    do TNI bought it directly from israel or from other company?

    (and they do send peacekeeper to lebanon right? don't they interested in changing their camouflage into 'desert' environment?)
    i never see any TNI's soldier use Tavor... do you have the pics? but TNI do use Galil. i think they bought it not directly from israel...

    about desert camo, i never heard TNI would change it's camo. i think it is useles anyway, with their bright and suny blue helmet...

  14. #1439
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    Quote Originally Posted by karbol View Post
    i never see any TNI's soldier use Tavor... do you have the pics? but TNI do use Galil. i think they bought it not directly from israel...

    about desert camo, i never heard TNI would change it's camo. i think it is useles anyway, with their bright and suny blue helmet...
    And dont forget their bright white colored APC's with a huge UN sign on it. Anyways, it would be really impratical for the contingent to change their current camo since the TNI dont have Desert or desert related camo in their inventory. Although SRITEX (Indonesian military uniform manufacturer, currently manufactures Battle Uniforms for the TNI, German Army, and so on) are capable of manufacturing them, but the TNI would see it as a waste of budget since the TNI's standard armor vests are in DPM colours. Although it wouldnt be a bad idea to field the new KOPASKA camo? Or if their really on a tight budget, they could just raid master chief grandma's house and take her curtains. lol imho

  15. #1440
    Senior Member boreal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DavidDCM View Post
    They have at least some mistakes. For example the document says that TNI has 50 Condor APC which to my best knowledge is not true. In Southeast Asia only Malaysia and Thailand have the Condor, Indonesia not.

    Another photo of the Hispano Suiza (HS) 20mm triple mount:

    What a nice yugo M-55 gun

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