Reply With QuoteNBC Microphone Adaptor for PRR?Originally Posted by kayaker
Regular guy
NBC Microphone Adaptor for PRR?
dutch soldiers in afghan
Just noticed this picture on the Defence website. ANP had a party after the graduation ceremony it seems.
Indeed! Anything but...Regular guy
I was thinking of some lip assisted light switch I came across recently but it seems like an odd place to stick that... so could be a microphone adaptor.
ducth cougars and british chinooks
With changing operational demands in mind RNLAF Apache helicopters practiced landing on board the LPD HNLMS Rotterdam.
Vid:
Source: defensie.nl
still think that a lhd would have been a better investment than the jss... and now they want these apaches, unsuitable for the sea, to operate from lpd's and the jss?
Pray tell us about the operational advantages of a LHD over any other ship with a helo deck for a type of helicopter that wasn't meant for ship borne operations anyway? Not that i don't agree with you that we should have a LHD, the JSS is there for a reason.
1. the jss is really expensive for what it's worth
2. a lhd would have allowed for something like 6 helicopters (apaches for example) to operate at the same time.
3 a lhd with it's bigger deck has more and bigger lifts and a larger hanger. The dutch apaches can't fold their rotors yet. They might be able to in the future if the project proves to be a success. So a bigger hanger would be a plus.
4. it's more stable, a must for the apache
5. a lhd can also be fitted with 'BOZ' equipment.
A separate class of AOR with 2 ships would have been better, along with 1 or 2 lhd's. The jss is here because they wanted a new ship, and parlement was against a lhd because they find it waaaay to aggressive (they picture a 300m nimitz escorted by a carrier battle group invading countless countries bla bla bla), so a compromise was made combining a freight ship a lhd an AOR and a lpd into one project saving costs at first but now becoming very expensive
The latest projection that i'm aware of puts the JSS at €407 million. This does not seem terribly more expensive than a LHD like let's say the Mistral class, considering they're only building one Karel Doorman, thus losing a massive amount in economics of scale, and it being bigger. Obviously it's still a lot of money, objectively speaking.
The JSS is not a LHD and an LHD is not a JSS. If you'd go with a LHD design, that would mean you lose a significant amount of space the Doorman uses to store logistics and vehicles because it is taken up by additional hangar space and helo maintenance. The Doorman is actually significantly heavier than a Mistral and a bit longer( the BPCs are wider though) and fitting a LHD with RAS equipment similar to what the JSS is going to be equipped with would hamper flight operations significantly(having pipe towers and cranes on a through deck ship is nonsensical). While you can see the Doorman design as a jack of all trades, it is designed with the purpose of seabasing in mind, something the average european LHD is not well suited at IMHO, particularly due to size constraints.
I do agree that a new AOR class would have been a good thing, but your idea of having both new AORs to replace/add to the Amsterdam AND have TWO LHDs is totally unrealistic. The navy does not have that kind of budget. The Doorman design is a compromise aimed at hitting perceived deficiencies in the fleet after the Zuiderkruis was taken out of service, while still trying to conform to the navy's aim of more sustainable power projection from the ocean. If the Doorman had been a LHD, the navy would have had less replenishment capability and capacity, hampering expeditionary operations. The JSS will operate along with the two LPDs and the escort ships, between them offering more than enough hangar space for operation of Apaches, should that be a desirable thing. An LHD is simply not expedient at this point in time, politically, financially and manning-wise.
Let's be honest neither is the jss, and the navy is significantly cutting it's ability to operate far out at sea for a longer period by replacing 2 AOR's with 1 jss.
Another problem i must admit with the lhd is the fact that the airforce doesnt like operating on navy ships at all, the 2 cougars operating on the rotterdam last month was a huge step for them
Another problem with both the jss and the lhd is the fact that they are becoming harder to escort because of the lack of frigates.
And what are we going to do with sea basing? invade somalia to fight pirates? why can't a lhd provide us with sea basing? we don't even operate any damn tanks anymore, the cougars are to be sold, the chinooks and apache's aren't really sea capable leaving only nh90s and cv90s.
Neither a jss nor a lhd would be needed according to this wisdom, but it's the truth.
A seperate AOR and lhd would, in my eyes, be a wiser decision, providing we operate it and the belgians also put their helicopters on it.
Edit: coming back on the fact that we have no bloody tanks, rumors have been going around the army for the last couple of weeks claiming the army was looking to buy pz87s (leo2a4s upgraded) for infantry support... let's hope these rumors are true
read this thread on defensieforum its a few pages back
http://www.defensieforum.nl/Forum/le...-t20769.0.html
page 3 is where the discussion ended for the time being and it goes through to page 4, 5 , 6 etc
Rumours are rumours..If that's true, the Landmacht might as well not sell 10-20 of the 2a6's, would be far cheaper, seeing as these were already paid for, not even counting that the Landmacht would have to restart tanker training, as most, if not all cav personnel have been retrained(AASLT) or have left.. Considering the sale of Leopards is partly supposed to pay for the acquisition of UAV's, I don't think it's credible at this point, unless the UAV plan has been abandoned.Let's be honest neither is the jss, and the navy is significantly cutting it's ability to operate far out at sea for a longer period by replacing 2 AOR's with 1 jss.
Another problem i must admit with the lhd is the fact that the airforce doesnt like operating on navy ships at all, the 2 cougars operating on the rotterdam last month was a huge step for them
Another problem with both the jss and the lhd is the fact that they are becoming harder to escort because of the lack of frigates.
And what are we going to do with sea basing? invade somalia to fight pirates? why can't a lhd provide us with sea basing? we don't even operate any damn tanks anymore, the cougars are to be sold, the chinooks and apache's aren't really sea capable leaving only nh90s and cv90s.
Neither a jss nor a lhd would be needed according to this wisdom, but it's the truth.
A seperate AOR and lhd would, in my eyes, be a wiser decision, providing we operate it and the belgians also put their helicopters on it.
edit: rumors have been going around the army for the last couple of weeks claiming the army was looking to buy pz87s (leo2a4s upgraded) for infantry support... let's hope these rumors are true
read this thread on defensieforum its a few pages back
http://www.defensieforum.nl/Forum/le...-t20769.0.html
Unregistered users can't view the rest of that thread, btw.
The 2a6's hulls are worn down to the bone. they were in need of replacement in 2015 anyways. Only our 2a6 turrets were updated over the years...
They are considering the tanks because of this loss of knowledge in the cav, and because of the huge absence of horizontal fire support.
There might have been a bright light in the army recognizing tanks are more important than uavs, besides we are probably only getting 4 operated from the us...
I advise to register at the forum because the people there are people in the armed forces so they have a pretty good clue about the military and global politics (although they can be racist sometimes), you dont have to say anything, like i do, but their discussions can be very informative.
edit: the 'new' tanks are probably going to be added to the mech inf instead of separate tank battalions, probably 24 divided in 4 'groups' of 6
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