Gripen News Thread

[Maskirovka]

It means SAAB has made too many jets and is now in a hurry to market them away.

Huh? The fighters sold abroad has been C and D models. These are basicly new built. The ones the Swedish airforce have ordered to many of are the A and B models. The A and B models are being slaughtered and only a few parts are being saved to build the new planes for Hungary/Czheck Republic. Basicly the entire body of the fighter has to be built from scratch along with many of the other gizmos and gadgets.

That is mine understanding of it...

[signatory]

It means SAAB has made too many jets and is now in a hurry to market them away.

Incorrect.

Hungarian Gripen's are from a brand new production run. They initially planned on buying surplus 39A/B jets but with a new government they decided in 2003 to buy brand new 39C/D NATO jets and delay the delivery. It's a bonus for them to now receive more modern jets sooner than expected.

The Czech jets otoh is on a government lease taken from the Swedish production line. In 2008 they plan to launch a tender for the future Czech air force, either they buy more Gripen's or go with something else. This is the reason they got jets from the C/D line. Future prospects.

The South African jets come from their own production line too, and is also ahead of schedule. These jets are not even identical to the Swedish jets, I can point of dozens of small physical changes but internally it's 1000'ds and they also fly a later software version.

There's a large shortage of C/D jets and has never been a surplus.

[signatory]

@ Caprice

Hey thanks man, good post.

Linking to the full pdf: Gripen N

[Caprice]

Thanks, Signatory!
What do you think about Gripens chance in Norway? I´m ambivalent, on one hand I would really like SAAB to get the deal, on the other I fear that the industry participation and more commonality (true or not)with other countries may weight over to LM side. That said; if there is more JSF budget overruns, or/and cuts in numbers ordered , who knows?

Regards C.

[signatory]

Thanks, Signatory!
What do you think about Gripens chance in Norway? I´m ambivalent, on one hand I would really like SAAB to get the deal, on the other I fear that the industry participation and more commonality (true or not)with other countries may weight over to LM side. That said; if there is more JSF budget overruns, or/and cuts in numbers ordered , who knows?

Regards C.

I think Gripen has a good chance. The big difference is really should a few Norwegian companies get very rich or should a larger number of companies get to share the cake. LM has fewer industry partners in Norway but those (Such as Kongsberg, Volvo Aero) could earn a lot should the JSF program be a success (i.e thousands of jets) but that might not help Norwegian industry and other regions as a whole in such a broad was as Gripen might do. Saab has many dozens of partners and this is already even without calling in the Investor AB/Wallenberg group of partners.

Technology wise it shouldn't really matter, perhaps the JSF is a bit slow and that should worry me if I were to buy it as the sole jet of my air force. Interoperability... well lately Norway has been working more with Sweden than the US it would seem, and if we're going to cut costs by sharing a northern base, training and airspace protection then it would be nice to use the same logistical platform.

But.. who knows!

[signatory]

I pulled out my calc.exe and worked out a few numbers that might be interesting. The F-35/EF numbers come from another place.

The A/B number is time in the air with afterburner.

GRIPEN NG Internal fuel ~6900 lbs
(1xF414)
~22500 lbs A/B Thrust @ 1,7 lb/lb.hr = ~0.180 = 11 min
~15000 lbs Mil Thrust @ 0,7 lb/lb.hr = ~0,657 = 40 min
--
Internal + 2 x 1200 L External fuel ~11133 lbs
~22500 lbs A/B Thrust @ 1,7 lb/lb.hr = ~0.291 = ~17,5 min
~15000 lbs Mil Thrust @ 0,7 lb/lb.hr = ~1,060 = ~64 min
(Gripen CAP 90min example)
--
F-35 Internal Fuel ~18,000 lbs
(1 x F135-PW-100)
~43,000 lbs A/B thrust @ ~2.0 lb/lb.hr = ~0.2093 hr = ~12.6 min
~28,000 lbs Mil thrust @ ~0.7 lb/lb.hr = ~0.9184 hr = ~55.1 min

EF Typhoon internal fuel ~10,000 lbs
(2 x EJ200 engine)
~40,500 lbs A/B thrust @ ~1.7 lb/lb.hr = ~0.1452 hr = 8.7 min
~27,000 lbs Mil thrust @ ~0.78 lb/lb.hr = ~0.4748 hr= 28.5 min
----------

Conclusion: On internal fuel only, using afterburner the Gripen NG and F-35 is close but F-35 do win. Gripen is otoh a Mach 2 jet and will travel further and/or faster there. Typhoon is the worst.

In a Mil thrust condition the JSF has significantly better time with 55 min, followed by 40 min on Gripen NG and less than 29 minutes on the Eurofighter Typhoon. But Gripen NG and Typhoon is both supercruise jets (supersonic without A/B) so that number doesn't reveal that much. I'll try to find data for a specific speed and altitude some day...

[Benke]

Interesting comparison, Signatory. It would be great to see the figures for the Rafale and Su-30MKII as well.

[signatory]

@ Benke, I'll see what I can do.

Gripen opens up for Norwegian-Swedish Helicopter cooperation
[2007-02-13 14:00]

Saab AB and Heli-One AS in Norway have today signed a Memorandum of Understanding regarding the international helicopter support market. The possible future Norwegian procurement of the Gripen fighter aircraft has paved the way for a co-operation between Heli-One and Saab to capture future contracts for helicopter support in the Nordic countries.

This MoU is the latest example of an increased collaboration between Swedish and Norwegian industry. The two companies, Saab and Heli-One have already begun to explore mutual business opportunities. One possible approach is to promote the Heli-One Stavanger facilities in Norway as the preferred center for training, maintenance and logistic support of the NH90 helicopters for the Swedish Defense Forces.

"Saab Aerotech and Heli-One have participated in several discussions regarding more intensified collaboration and we are very pleased to now have this agreement in place", states Lars-Erik Wige, President of the Saab Aerotech.

"Since we started our discussions with the Norwegian authorities regarding the Gripen fighter, we have seen an enormous interest among Swedish and Norwegian companies, both in the military and the civil sector, resulting in huge potential for increased cooperation within Scandinavia." says Kjell Möller Saab Vice President and Managing Director for Saab Industrial Cooperation.

"Heli-One has a long standing record in providing training, maintenance and logistic support to both commercial and military helicopter operators worldwide. Swedish Defence Forces is already a major customer of Heli-One regarding support of their Super Puma helicopters. In order to capture new business opportunities from our Swedish customer as well as for other helicopter operators, we see this partnering with Saab as a major step", states Jens Kørte, Managing Director of Heli-One (Norway) AS.


Heli-One is a division within the CHC Helicopter Corporation Group and provides helicopter maintenance and logistic support for CHC´s fleet of helicopters and for civil and military operator´s world wide. Heli-One (Norway) AS is a company in the Heli-One group and is located in Stavanger, Norway.

Saab serves the global market with world-leading products, services and solutions ranging from military defence to civil security. Saab has operations and employees on all continents and constantly develops, adopts and improves new technology to meet customers´ changing needs.

For further information, please contact:
Gripen International:
Owe Wagermark, Gripen International Communications Director
Mobile tel: +46 734 18 18 24
Fax: +46 13 18 00 55
email: owe.wagermark@gripen.com

Heli-One:
Chris Flanagan, Director of Communications
CHC Helicopter Corporation
Phone: +1 604 279 2493
Fax: +1 604 232 8341

Saab Aerotech:
John Belanger, Vice-president Communications
Phone: +46 73 18 31 01
Fax: +46 13 18 48 74

www.saabgroup.com
http://www.saabgroup.com/en/MediaRel...leaseId=143665

[Caprice]

Thanks for your comments Signatory! Let´s hope for the best.
While I´m at it; found some info about the demonstrator:

Gripen Demonstrator to fly next year.

Saab is leading a team of partners in the development and construction of a dramatically improved version of the JAS 39 Gripen fighter, with a demonstrator for the new version due to fly in 2008. A formal announcement of the demonstrator programmeáis expected within two to three months.
-------------------------------------
Saab claims that the new aircraft will be able to perform a five-hour unrefuelled maritime reconnaissance mission or sustain a 90-minute CAP as far away as Scotland from Norwegian bases.
------------------------------------
The new engine and airframe modifications will fly on a demonstrator in 2008, jointly funded by the Swedish government, Saab, Ericsson, Volvo and GE. An active electronically scanned array radar will fly on the demonstrator in 2009. Other new avionics will be tested on ground rigs to ensure that the latest possible technology will be used. To reduce costs, Saab intends to separate mission avionics from flight-critical systems, so that non-certifiable software can be used for mission applications. Total development costs have not been stated.

http://www4.janes.com/subscribe/jdw/...JDW&QueryText=

Good to see that they are doing their best, but will it be enough?
Btw, interesting that GE is a part of this and norwegian Volvo Aero manufacture parts to JSF engine.

Regards C

[signatory]

Thanks for your comments Signatory! Let´s hope for the best.
While I´m at it; found some info about the demonstrator:

Gripen Demonstrator to fly next year.
http://www4.janes.com/subscribe/jdw/...JDW&QueryText=

Good to see that they are doing their best, but will it be enough?
Btw, interesting that GE is a part of this and norwegian Volvo Aero manufacture parts to JSF engine.

Regards C

Yeah GE has been a great supporter of the Gripen and the F414 engine in Super Hornet use RM12 derived parts for high bird strike survivability and so on.

They lobbied for Gripen in South Africa since the competing aircraft in that tender used P&W or Snecma engines. Engines make out a large part of the cost.. 48 jets to Norway would probably mean ~ 100 million USD worth of sales for GE so it's a good business decision to invest in a demo.

Speaking of (Super) hornet... I've been thinking what a great companion the Gripen could be to that jet, with shared logistical and weapons platform. Gripen being cheaper and has an edge in Air superiority while the Hornet can bring a larger payload to the table.

[dobrodan]

Yeah GE has been a great supporter of the Gripen and the F414 engine in Super Hornet use RM12 derived parts for high bird strike survivability and so on.

They lobbied for Gripen in South Africa since the competing aircraft in that tender used P&W or Snecma engines. Engines make out a large part of the cost.. 48 jets to Norway would probably mean ~ 100 million USD worth of sales for GE so it's a good business decision to invest in a demo.

Speaking of (Super) hornet... I've been thinking what a great companion the Gripen could be to that jet, with shared logistical and weapons platform. Gripen being cheaper and has an edge in Air superiority while the Hornet can bring a larger payload to the table.

Somehow, I feel that the Gripen N should be renamed "Super Gripen", to clearly distance it from the "old" Gripen A/B/C/D

[signatory]

Somehow, I feel that the Gripen N should be renamed "Super Gripen", to clearly distance it from the "old" Gripen A/B/C/D

Hehehe that's not a bad idea actually

[Thor]

Does the Gripen offered to India include AESA as the norwegian one?

[signatory]

Does the Gripen offered to India include AESA as the norwegian one?

Yes..

Mr Ogilvy said Gripen JAS 39 offered a low-maintenance model with an assured life of 40 years. He said IAF had wanted fighters in the race to be upgraded to Active Electronically Scanned Array (AESA) radars and Gripen would ” on acceptance of RFP ” include the radars in the offer.

(If they receive a RFP)

[Thor]

Ok, a very competitive offer then.