Gripen News Thread

[roblin22]

More on the attitude that "politicians can't tell the different between wrench and screwdriver, so why bother to give them the whole picture?"

So the cycle goes: distrust -> lack of disclosure -> under-the-table dealing +/- false claims -> discovery -> investigation -> funding/freeze +/- political dictation.

It's a vicious cycle, to say the least, but it's getting popular during the post-Cold War era when national defense has become more or less a commercial opportunity for some, rather than a "failure is not an option" decision. False claims, big time, JSF/F35-style.

Personally, i still prefer full disclosure to policymakers/taxpayers (even if it means having to answer five dozen silly questions), if not only for liability's sake. Politics is not meant for efficiency, after all.

Oops, sorry for steering off-topic.

[Unifil 37]

Guys, It's not BS from their stand point... it's what they believe and we should let them hold that opinion. I'm personally more happy than sad that they didn't select Gripen but I'll leave out why.

But let's finally put this into perspective OK since someone thought it was worth posting here and so it should not go unanswered. Those who disagree with me, or other posters on this page can preferably take their comments to another thread.

Norway trust the F-35 to be the better alternative for Norwegian ambitions and operational requirements for the period 2020-2050 and that might very well be true. Simple as that. Unlike the Netherlands, Norway has not let a supreme auditor look into the matter so trust is key here.

They make it clear that their opinion on use and costs is only relevant to Norway, they will also get a unique F-35 version with a drag chute and we have no idea what extra costs such a design would have. They also say the Gripen offer is better than their F-16s, they say that system could better suit other countries, and they say the calculated costs is not comparable to other countries due to unique Norwegian operational requirements.

So that is what they believe, and it has little to do with anything else.

We have no idea what kind of missions the jets would solve and what type of sensors and weapons could be used, the Swedish side has not been told either and not what type of parameters were used. If the priority was to hide, sneek around and avoid a fight then the F-35 would come out on top all the time yes. Did they judge self-protection and electronic attack to be useless in the future... we simply don't know because the details of their decision has not been communicated.

We do know they looked for another type of aircraft (which is only part of a decision) and did change the operational requirements late in the competition to favor a stealthy aircraft (this is when Eurofighter left). The Danish auditor has commented recently that the Norwegian cost calculations look surprisingly high compared to their own ongoing calculations so those numbers will be interesting to see. It's not just that Norway didn't trust the Swedish price offer they also inflated the F-35 LCC costs.
.

Well said! Totally agree with you.

[TGIF]

Now in English

http://www.*******.com/article/rbssI...93176220090417

The news has reached Swedish media now with some comments from Saab and FMV.

Ulrika Fager, Press Secretary at Saab. says: "I know nothing about it. Today we have submitted the second phase of the tender, regarding the aircraft system. Regarding industrial cooperations, we shall not submit anything until the end of May".

Press Officer at FMV, Ulf Lindström, says: "We have made no such commitment. And there is no date or time when we will replace the current trainer aircraft, SK60"

Article in Swedish:
http://di.se/Avdelningar/Artikel.aspx?ArticleID=2009\04\17\333566&sectionid=

Perhaps there's more info in May when the offset proposal is handed in.

[Herman the II]

Perhaps there's more info in May when the offset proposal is handed in.

Originially the deadline for that was mid-April, now it was delayed until May. Quite fishy, first they delay the decision and now the deadline for the offsets.
Switzerland always pretends how their selection will be absolutely neutral and will strictly follow the rules and the timetable...
In reality their tender is as worse as the rest.


In German:

Fristverlängerung für Kampfflugzeug-Anbieter

Im Seilziehen um die Beschaffung neuer Kampfflugzeuge für die Schweizer Armee rücken wirtschaftliche Aspekte in den Vordergrund. Die für das Evalutionsverfahren verantwortliche Armasuisse verlangt von den drei Konkurrenten Saab (Gripen), Dassault (Rafale) und EADS (Eurofighter), dass sie mögliche Gegengeschäfte im Wert von mindestens 800 Millionen Franken detailliert belegt. Hierfür ist die Eingabefrist bis Ende Mai verlängert worden.

http://www.nzz.ch/nachrichten/schwei...1.2422799.html

[hsh2]

Sweden is offering to buy 50 PC-21 trainer aircraft from Switzerland if Switzerland buys the Gripen as TTE. A quasi swap.



http://www.flugzeugforum.de/forum/sh...=5360&page=204

If true that would be the compensation business overkill...

Cheers

EDIT:
Brr, seriously....
Signatory is way too fast.

More:

http://www.tagesanzeiger.ch/schweiz/...story/18267559

[jontew]

Hmm somehow I have a hard time believing that the swedish airforce will switch to a turboprop, but who knows, maybe they will...

[signatory]

More of LAAD

Thanks Bolovo for the links.

LAAD Gripen Simulator

They are up on Defesanet's webpage:

Video 2

Or

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fsFrCmAKZl8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rfFQURbwoeY

------

The Flygvapnet pilot, Johan Bergkvist, shows some skills of Gripen. He speaks portuguese. In the first video, the pilot demonstrates an ground attack (70mm rockets?) and shotdown a Mig with a IR missile (AIM-9, Iris-T??). The second video is about the BVR ability.

----

Potentional customer meets Reference customer



The Chief of the Brazilian Air Force, Lt Brig Juniti Saito met with the Czech military delegation at LAAD to discuss operational experience with JAS Gripen and other matters.

Juniti Saito has also spent on-site time with the South African and Swedish air force last year and even before becoming Air chief got to fly a Gripen in 1997.

link
--

Programs not Products

"I think there are a number of differences this time around," said Bob Kemp, marketing and sales director at Gripen International. "The MoD says we're looking for programs, not products. In the previous FX, it was very much looking for an existing product that was on the market.

Fighter Buy Tests Brazil's Will

---

A program...

[Bolovo]

Gripen at LAAD 2009




Source: Leonardo Jones/Defesa Brasil

[JohanGrön]

The links seems to be "dead".

UPDATE: Thx, the new links works!


Cheers
//JG

[signatory]

The links seems to be "dead".

Cheers
//JG

Yeap.

But they are up on Defesanet's webpage:

Video 2

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Article and photos from Saab....

"SAAB: the nest of Griffins"
Credits: ALIDE / Fellipe Sales

In portuguese

[Chrisis]

Today decision day in the Netherlands

As I have mentioned earlier today the Dutch parliament will have to decide about buying one, two or no test-aircraft. During the last days there has been a lot of publicly debate between pro and contra JSF opinions. Several stakeholders for the last time told there story, to parliament and to the people.

The critical website www.jsfnieuws.nl, has published the letters from Saab to the Dutch parliament, Prime- minister and industrial defense group (NIFARP) and the commander of the RNLAF.
Let’s hope that this will be a turning point, in the way Gripen NG is treated.

It could mean there will be a cabinet’s crisis; all depends on the view (voting) of the labour party (PvdA). They are in a very difficult situation. They have since the beginning opposed to the JSF deal. Ms. Eijssink is the person who invited the Saab Gripen NG offer. All the way they have been very critical.
If they accept the JSF test aircraft they accept the JSF as a whole. Left party will remember that during the coming elections (2010). (In the Netherlands they have the name they can’t stick to there opinion.)

If they vote against the JSF test-aircraft it is possible they will have a cabinet’s crisis (with CDA.) I think important to remember that Jack de Vries, current secretary of defense was the person who was responsible for the last CDA campaign against the PvdA to picture them as not able to stick to there opinions and stand firm.)

How firm will they stand today?

The document: Aanbod Saab Gripen NG voor Nederland

Is an overview of the offer to the Dutch mod. It is a breakdown and description of the different items included in the offer.

[*zeven*]

Chrisis

thanks for PDF.

[solidarnosc]

When was the last time the PVDA held firm? Before or after the second world war?

[signatory]

Thanks Chrisis, a fairly big package they offer... jammer pods, hmds, simulators etc.

About the 1700L (450 Gal) tank...

One drop tank gives the Gripen NG an extra range of approximately 1000 km.

That's nice.

[signatory]

Market update

Denmark: Berlingske Tidende reports that a decision on new fighter jets will be delayed until after the summer. Unconfirmed. Next week the Danes will visit the Saab factory.

Brazil: Defence minister Nelson Jobim announced that a decision on what fighter program to buy will happen this August.

Netherlands: After a marathon debate the ruling coalition still seems at a stalemate on a decision to buy a test jet from a American producer. Parliamentarian vote on Thursday. If yes, Saab is likely to say buh-bye.