Indian Armed Forces

[TR1]

It is strange that IAF would replace MKIs with PAK FA ... MKIs are 3.5 gen fighters heavy fighter ..... where as PAK FA (3.5 or 4 gen) medium combat aircraft ....

MKI is based off Su-27, which is 4th gen to start with....PAKFA is very much 5th gen, anyways generation talk is pointless.

[Kunal Biswas]

I am specially interested in these two pictures. Looks like NSG personnel went to Germany for some kind of competition. Any caption which goes with these photos? Do you have more pictures from this set?

Check this out you will find more pics than you want !!

http://nsg.gov.in/june08/photogallerynsginaction.htm

[Kunal Biswas]

I believe we will see it very soon, within a few months or so, induction time is a whole separate question though. Depends on how similar the Russian and Indian versions will be as well.

sukhoi PAKFA n FGFA ,both fighters would be developed by sukhoi (FGFA-by HAL n sukhoi) FGFA is a tandem seat variant of PAKFA, It is a derivative project from the PAK FA being developed for the Indian Air Force (FGFA is the official designation for the Indian version).According to HAL chairman A.K. Baweja shortly after the India-Russia Inter-Governmental Committee meeting on 18 September 2008, the Russian aircraft will be a single-seater, the Indian FGFA will be a twin seater, but not a trainer version of the Russian counterpart. Two separate prototypes with minimum common technology will be developed, one by Russia (designated the Sukhoi T-50) and a separate one by India (designated FGFA). Surely both will be slightly differnt in terms of their roles in different atmospheres .... Anyways lets see ...

[Kunal Biswas]

MKI is based off Su-27, which is 4th gen to start with....PAKFA is very much 5th gen, anyways generation talk is pointless.

MKI based on SU-30s i think !! , which is 4th gen........ PAK FA is 5 gen (my mistake in previous post) ..... But why is generation term is pointless as it define how modern the aircraft is ??

[TR1]

MKI based on SU-30s i think !! , which is 4th gen........ PAK FA is 5 gen (my mistake in previous post) ..... But why is generation term is pointless as it define how modern the aircraft is ??

Well yes, but SU-30 started off as essentially a two seat Su-27.

generational talk is pointless because it is used by companies like Lockheed MArtin to proclaim the superiority of their aircraft over previous generations, when in reality the situation is a bit more complex.

[Kunal Biswas]

Well yes, but SU-30 started off as essentially a two seat Su-27.

generational talk is pointless because it is used by companies like Lockheed MArtin to proclaim the superiority of their aircraft over previous generations, when in reality the situation is a bit more complex.

Is Situation complexity means by its improved performance against enemy fighters using both old and new tech ?? or it just a trick ........

[oldsoak]

Beware the hype.
5th gen sounds good, but in a one vs one combat in visual range vs a competently handled Mig29 or Su30 and the result will not be a forgone conclusion. In BVR combat, its down to radar systems, ECM, data exchange between aircraft etc ie how sensors and data interacts - all of which can be supplied as upgrades to Mig29/Su30 series.

[Kunal Biswas]

Nice pics ....

[Kunal Biswas]

5th gen sounds good, but in a one vs one combat in visual range vs a competently handled Mig29 or Su30 and the result will not be a forgone conclusion. In BVR combat, its down to radar systems, ECM, data exchange between aircraft etc ie how sensors and data interacts - all of which can be supplied as upgrades to Mig29/Su30 series.

Well true enough !!.....SU-30 mkis have all new and updated equipments which make her most formidable heavy fighter in south Asia, As per PAK-FA it is not clear whether PAK FA will have a AESA or regular PESA radar as it is on MKIs ..... I hope PAK-FA also have updated ECM and other avionics .... Anyways we will know about her real specifications in coming months ....

[Kunal Biswas]

Well i am pretty clear about Situation complexity !!

[TR1]

Is Situation complexity means by its improved performance against enemy fighters using both old and new tech ?? or it just a trick ........

I mean there is much more to fighters than just what generations they are.
MiG-21BISON is generation 2, but it has superior BVR to 4th Gen Pakistani F-16s.

[TR1]

Well true enough !!.....SU-30 mkis have all new and updated equipments which make her most formidable heavy fighter in south Asia, As per PAK-FA it is not clear whether PAK FA will have a AESA or regular PESA radar as it is on MKIs ..... I hope PAK-FA also have updated ECM and other avionics .... Anyways we will know about her real specifications in coming months ....

PAK-fa will have AESA for sure, some interesting type too I am sure, perhaps wing mounted arrays for one...if the IRBIS-E is any indication, the Russian air borne radar industry has advanced enormously recently.

[Kunal Biswas]

PAK-fa will have AESA for sure, some interesting type too I am sure, perhaps wing mounted arrays for one...if the IRBIS-E is any indication, the Russian air borne radar industry has advanced enormously recently.

IRBIS - E is a very nice radar and new Irbis-E Radar with more powerful search ability..... Anyways Zhuk-A exist:- the FGA-29, and the follow on FGA-35 which will boast an improved detection range of 200 km with 60 targets tracked.....

Is there any other AESA developed in Russia ??

[TR1]

I am sure there are AESA developments by Tikhomirov, but they are in no rush, their IRbis-E is probably the most powerful fighter radar in the world, and has a very long life ahead of it-mechanical as well as electronic beam steering allows for unparalleed scan angles, and in pure range and output it will be well ahead of any Zhuk AESA (being heavier and having bigger apparature helps of course). IF India does indeed go for these radars on the MKIs, the plane will be donwright monstrous.

[Kunal Biswas]

I am sure there are AESA developments by Tikhomirov, but they are in no rush, their IRbis-E is probably the most powerful fighter radar in the world, and has a very long life ahead of it-mechanical as well as electronic beam steering allows for unparalleed scan angles, and in pure range and output it will be well ahead of any Zhuk AESA (being heavier and having bigger apparature helps of course). IF India does indeed go for these radars on the MKIs, the plane will be donwright monstrous.

It is speculated that the passive phased array Radar Irbis-E will be added to the fighter jet by 2010, when the first totally India-built Su-30MKI will roll out from HAL Nasik. Anyways Thanks for infos !!