Greek coastal security boats caught in the act

[Clearday-TRForce]

Illegal immigrants set adrift on Turkish territorial waters in small plastic boat, without even oars, by Greek vessels

ANKARA - Turkish Daily News


Greek coastal security vessels were twice caught in the act of leaving illegal immigrants in the open sea on a small plastic boat without oars, not far from the Turkish cities of Ayvalık and Kuşadası on the Aegean coast.

Hürriyet, which obtained photographs taken by Turkish coastal security authorities, printed the pictures showing that the illegal immigrants trying to reach the coast using their hands to steer the boat. It said Turkish Coastal Security officials forwarded the pictures and records of the July 2004 and May 2006 incidents to Greek authorities via the Turkish Foreign Ministry.

Greece is a major transit point for immigrants seeking entry into the prosperous European Union countries, with busy smuggling routes between the Greek islands and the nearby coast of Turkey.

Turkey and Greece signed a protocol in November, 2001 to help tackle terrorism and illegal immigration, yet in 2003 Athens started leaving illegal immigrants in Turkish territorial waters. According to official figures from the Turkish Police Department, Greek authorities illegally left a total of 5,800 immigrants in this manner between in early 2003 and August, 2006. Turkish Foreign Ministry officials said that both Turkey and Greece hoped to overcome the problem through confidence-building measures recently unveiled by the foreign ministers of the two countries as a sign of willingness to improve bilateral ties.

The officials also stressed that the incidents took place before a meeting between the foreign ministers of the two countries in June, where they discussed the issue.

Foreign Minister Abdullah Gül and his Greek counterpart, Dora Bakoyannis, announced in Istanbul a set of measures designed to boost confidence between the people of Greece and Turkey and help tackle their territorial disputes in the Aegean. The two countries also agreed in principle for the start of talks between the Turkish and Greek coastal security authorities.

During a recent meeting in New York on the sidelines of U.N. general assembly meetings, both Gül and Bakoyannis expressed agreement for the immediate start of talks between the coastal security authorities of the two countries.

At least they must safely give them to us. They are human. It is not a good act.



regards,
CDTRF

[saladin]

I think you should have posted the pictures to Greek Military Pictures thread. Anyway, they are here




And draw your own conclusion
http://www.ekathimerini.com/4dcgi/_w.../09/2006_74288

Greece at helm of EU coast guard

The European Commission is moving ahead with plans to create a European coast guard - an initiative first proposed by Greece - as other EU member states are increasingly eager to crack down on illegal immigration and cross-border crime, sources have told Kathimerini.

Already, the EU’s external border security agency (Frontex) has conducted a series of operations in the Mediterranean aimed at curbing illegal immigration, the sources said. And already Greece appears to be playing a key role in developments.

The chief of Frontex’s sea border unit is reportedly a senior Greek coast guard official and all actions are planned in association with the Piraeus-based EU Sea Borders Center.

Most recently, a joint Greek-Italian operation in the central and eastern Aegean led to the arrest of 137 illegal immigrants and nine smugglers between June 25 and July 2. The initiative, code-named “Poseidon,” conducted round-the-clock inspections at specific harbors (including Chios, Lesvos and Samos as well as in Patras, Igoumenitsa, Bari and Brindisi) enlisting the help of observers from eight different countries.

Apart from cracking down on illegal immigration and human trafficking, a common coast guard would help EU countries fight drug smuggling, arms trafficking and curb potential terrorist attacks, the same sources maintained.

“Operations (like Poseidon) help us to improve the coordination of national forces and highlight the need for the creation of a European coast guard which would be coordinated by Frontex and would serve to monitor the EU’s sea borders,” a Greek coast guard official, who preferred to remain anonymous, told Kathimerini. The EU has earmarked 841,000 euros to conduct a feasibility study on the establishment of a European coast guard.

At the end of last month, Public Order Minister Vyron Polydoras criticized the EU for not doing enough to tackle the problems that Greece, and other European countries, face with illegal immigrants trying to get into their countries. Polydoras told the EU that Greece would undertake responsibility for guarding the EU’s sea borders if Brussels would cover the cost of the operation.

[Nick_Karatzides]

I think you should have posted the pictures to Greek Military Pictures thread

No, he shouldn't! Clearday-TRForce is an old and experienced MP.net member and decided right to open an individual tread. The Hellenic Armed Forces Photos (or "Greek Military Pictures" as you said) thread, is dedicated to Hellenic military pictures ONLY!

As for the article, I'm afraid that I see a flamewar coming...

[c62]

Athens started leaving illegal immigrants in Turkish territorial waters.

Do the Greeks have permission to enter Turkish territorial waters? The article was vague on what the agreement says the Greeks can and can not do in Turkish territorial waters. Do the Greeks have permission from the Turkish gov't to bring aboard these people? Do the Greeks have permission to sail to the nearest port(most likely a Turkish port) to turn them over? Again I honestly have no idea what was and what was not agreed to.

[kinmid]

Yesterday we became witnesses of yet another attempt to discredit Greece.
An attempt orchestrated by the well known Turkish propaganda mechanism that never misses a chance to promote the real intentions as far as the Greco-Turkish relations are conserned.

The incident we are currently hearing from other sources as being used for proof from the Turkish side, will be something like a specific incident where Turkish coast guard dennied to allow a near by Greek CG vessel to rescue several dozen stranded illegal immigrants from a wooden boat originating from Turkey, immobilized inside Turkish waters, while the Turkish CG vessels in the area didn't do anything to help. Eventually the immigrants were rescued by the Greek CG vessel when their boat finally drifted into Greek waters, and in due time they were returned to Turkey, as per the specific deal signed from the two countries in 2001.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/balkanhr/message/4154

For those who don't know...
Greece and Turkey have agreed a deal ever since 2000, signed in 2001, which actually provides the means for illegal immigrants captured by each side coming from the other, to actually be returned immediately to the country of departure.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/1645079.stm
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpag...C1A9679C8B 63
http://www.bianet.org/2003/03/21_eng/news5953.htm


There was an immediate flooding of all Turkish forums with the video aired by the Turkish TV, and a relevant phrassal assault on the alleged "Greek brutality".
Thankfully for Greeks, common logic and actual evidence, managed to prove the manipulation and the real intention of this last episode from the series of Turkish provocations towards Greece.

Turkish video:
http://www.ntvmsnbc.com/Modules/Habe...Multeci(3).wmv


FACTS (according to reality)
-----------------------------

The incident we are currently presented as proof from the Turkish side, is actually a specific incident where Turkish coast guard dennied to allow a nearby Greek CG vessel to rescue several stranded illegal immigrants from a wooden boat ddead in the water and originating from Turkey.
The boat was obviously stranded inside Turkish territorial waters, while the Turkish CG vessels in the area didn't do anything to help. Eventually those immigrants were rescued by the same Greek CG vessel when their boat finally drifted into Greek waters.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/balkanhr/message/4154

For those who don't know...
Greece and Turkey have agreed a deal ever since 2000, signed in 2001, which actually provides the means for illegal immigrants captured by each side coming from the other, to actually be returned immediately to the country of departure.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/1645079.stm
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpag...C1A9679C8B 63
http://www.bianet.org/2003/03/21_eng/news5953.htm


FACTS (according to Turkish video)
-----------------------------------

1-Greek coast guard vessel sailing alone in the sea, filmed by air.
2-Same Greek coast guard vessel with it's rafts deployed, filmed by air.
3-Wooden boat full of refugeees dead in the water alone in the sea, filmed by air.
4-Small raft full of refugees wairing life-jackets alone in the sea, filmed by air and sea.
5-Several Turkish vessels sailing at high speed filmed by sea and air.
6-A fast patrol boat of unknown origin sailing at high speed in the distance, filmed by air.
7-Audio recordings of Turkish communications.
8-Radar screenshot.
9-All these taking place in broad day light.


CONCLUSSION (according to Turkish forumers logic lol)
-----------------------------------------

1-The Greek vessel was inside Turkish territorial waters.
2-It unloaded refugees in the raft.
3-It run away after being spotted.


CONCLUSSION (according to common logic)
----------------------------------------

1-No image of all three vessels in the same frame, not even a distant one (Greek CG vessel, boat, raft), despite the cameras present both on air and sea by the Turkish side.
2-No image of Turkish coast guard vessels approaching the Greek vessel, or in the same frame with it, even a distant one.
3-No image of Greek CG vessel unloading refugees (by the way... did they towed the boat?)
4-No actual proof of the Greek CG vessel being inside the Turkish territorial waters.
5-No actual proof of Greek crew unloading refugees to rafts.
6-No image of the heroic Turkish coast guard crews saving the stranded refugees.
7-No image of those refugees being unloaded on a Turkish port. No interviews of them. NADA!!!


For an add-on comment:

http://www.hurriyet.com.tr/english/
http://www.hurriyet.com.tr/english/5117426.asp?gid=74

I quote:
"The video images were recorded in July 2004, and again this year in late May, and show Greek coast guard boats coming from the Greek islands of Samos and Lesbos"
"In the latest of the video images shot from a Turkish coast guard helicopter, a Greek vessel approaches Turkish waters from the island of Lesbos early in the morning of May 27, 2006. Stopping about 700 meters off the Ayvalik coastline"

So if we are talking about July 2004, then the video showing a Greek Saar coast guard vessel, is actually irrelevant (and off course proves the manipulation from the Turkish side), since there was only one available back then, and it was stationed in Attika for the Olympics.
It actually became operational a few days before the olympics, when the sea trials ended.
If we are talking about late May 2006, then the video is also irrelevant (and off course proves the manipulation from the Turkish side), since all three available Saar vessels were eventually equiped with a main gun, which isn't the case in the video recorded.

Image of the Saar in question:
http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g2...aar4_GR_11.jpg

The Saar in the video obviously has both it's rafts on deck.
Some other fast boats presented are actually used by the DYK, or the Greek equivalent of "Seals", so their presence around the Saar actually corresponds to the sea trials conducted in 2004 just before the Olympics, when both the Coast Guard and the DYK had undertaken a major role in the security of the games.


http://www.hurriyet.com.tr/english/
http://www.hurriyet.com.tr/english/5117426.asp?gid=74

I quote:
"show Greek coast guard boats coming from the Greek islands of Samos and Lesbos leaving groups of Afghani refugees to drift towards Kusadasi and Ayvalik"

Which obviously isn't shown.
We see many things, but none of the kind.
And I will not comment on the specific size ship abilities to approach at 700m distance from the Turkish coasts undetected, when the distance from Lesvos is actually 10Km at the narrowest point.
I guess most of you have GoogleEarth, so do a distance check.



What really is all this about?
One more deliberate attempt of the Turkish authorities to discredit Greece, when in fact the Turkish coast guard is dishonouring it's own humanitarian responcibilities and mission, by deliberately endangering innocent lives, in order to exploit such incidents for propaganda. The fact that whenever they send a ship or vessel to provoke Greek authorities, they make sure there are half a dozen cameras around to video tape it, makes their intention more clear. And off course this clears-out any delussions about the so called "Greco-Turkish" friendship.
Their objective is obviously to create a negative environment where Greek coast guard vessels will actually hesitate to intervene when international law, and illegal immigration issues arise in the region, or when Greek sovereignty is challenged, by fear of being manipulated in the same manner.




HAVE FUN !!!

[GREEK-AIRBORNE]

Well said @Kinmid pointing out the obvius!
Turkish propaganda in action!
To bad that the poor turks believe it!

[saladin]

Yeah, you are right.

This ship has the motors disabled. It is clear that the ship has a rope in the front, a sign that it has been towed.



The refugees wave cloths to Turkish helicopter to get the crews' attention




There is no other ship around but Greek coast guard ship




Then this Greek ship makes the rescue manevuer



away from the refugees. Yeah, that is a hell of rescue manevuer.

I'm glad that our coast guard can't replicate that.

http://video.showtvnet.com/haber//200906/yunan.wmv

[saladin]

While looking at Turkish Coast Guard website, I noticed that one of the pictures in the second post (duplicated below) was taken from another operation on August 18. That image was mistakenly referred as May 27 operation by the source I have taken it from (Aksam Newspaper), probably because of its higher quality. I make the record straight here to prevent further misunderstanding.

[GREEK-AIRBORNE]

Althouth its obvius that this is propaganda i will ask you one simple question.
Since the Turkish Coast Guard has filmed the "operation" of the Greek Coast guard how on earth dont they filmed the moment when the Greek vessel leaves the Boat with the refugees in the turkish waters???

Why is the most critical part of the video missing?

-please do not tell me that the Turkish coast guard arrived after....

[GREEK-AIRBORNE]

away from the refugees. Yeah, that is a hell of rescue manevuer.

The "fact" that this ship (its not so clear if its Greek or not) does not save the Refuges means that this ship has droped them there???

[saladin]

The "fact" that this ship (its not so clear if its Greek or not) does not save the Refuges means that this ship has droped them there???

Watch the movie from start to beginning to see if it is a greek one or not.

In related news, this video was mentioned in 2004 but was never shown before. If it was Turkish propoganda, I should congragulate them that planned this propoganda two years ago, waited for two years, and now they are showing it.


http://www.milliyet.com.tr/2004/07/2...set/siy07.html

I let the forumers make their own conclusions after both sides' arguments.

[saladin]

The "fact" that this ship (its not so clear if its Greek or not) does not save the Refuges means that this ship has droped them there???

Ok, lets assume they didn't drop them. Then why they did not help them? Watch the video to see Greek boats leaving. Either they left the refugees stranded or they were in Turkish waters so they left it to Turkish coast guard. Either way it is not good. Of course, it is even worse, if they towed them there.

[kinmid]

@Saladin

You seem to make a habit in several forums, to try and manipulate obvious realities into you own perception of it.
You are actually irrelevent, and your arguments are a complete joke, samewise the arguments and video used by the Turkish propaganda mechanisms.

There is really no point in flame-throwing at each other when REAL "facts" speak for themselves, and where actual intelligence can judge for itself.
So once again, I re-post the actual story FACTS.
Feel free to re-post yours as well.
Let those who can read and think, decide who is more close to reality...


Yesterday we became witnesses of yet another attempt to discredit Greece.
An attempt orchestrated by the well known Turkish propaganda mechanism that never misses a chance to promote the real intentions as far as the Greco-Turkish relations are conserned.

The incident we are currently hearing from other sources as being used for proof from the Turkish side, will be something like a specific incident where Turkish coast guard dennied to allow a near by Greek CG vessel to rescue several dozen stranded illegal immigrants from a wooden boat originating from Turkey, immobilized inside Turkish waters, while the Turkish CG vessels in the area didn't do anything to help. Eventually the immigrants were rescued by the Greek CG vessel when their boat finally drifted into Greek waters, and in due time they were returned to Turkey, as per the specific deal signed from the two countries in 2001.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/balkanhr/message/4154

For those who don't know...
Greece and Turkey have agreed a deal ever since 2000, signed in 2001, which actually provides the means for illegal immigrants captured by each side coming from the other, to actually be returned immediately to the country of departure.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/1645079.stm
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpag...C1A9679C8B 63
http://www.bianet.org/2003/03/21_eng/news5953.htm


There was an immediate flooding of all Turkish forums with the video aired by the Turkish TV, and a relevant phrassal assault on the alleged "Greek brutality".
Thankfully for Greeks, common logic and actual evidence, managed to prove the manipulation and the real intention of this last episode from the series of Turkish provocations towards Greece.

Turkish video:
http://www.ntvmsnbc.com/Modules/Habe...Multeci(3).wmv


FACTS (according to reality)
-----------------------------

The incident we are currently presented as proof from the Turkish side, is actually a specific incident where Turkish coast guard dennied to allow a nearby Greek CG vessel to rescue several stranded illegal immigrants from a wooden boat ddead in the water and originating from Turkey.
The boat was obviously stranded inside Turkish territorial waters, while the Turkish CG vessels in the area didn't do anything to help. Eventually those immigrants were rescued by the same Greek CG vessel when their boat finally drifted into Greek waters.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/balkanhr/message/4154

For those who don't know...
Greece and Turkey have agreed a deal ever since 2000, signed in 2001, which actually provides the means for illegal immigrants captured by each side coming from the other, to actually be returned immediately to the country of departure.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/1645079.stm
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpag...C1A9679C8B 63
http://www.bianet.org/2003/03/21_eng/news5953.htm


FACTS (according to Turkish video)
-----------------------------------

1-Greek coast guard vessel sailing alone in the sea, filmed by air.
2-Same Greek coast guard vessel with it's rafts deployed, filmed by air.
3-Wooden boat full of refugeees dead in the water alone in the sea, filmed by air.
4-Small raft full of refugees wairing life-jackets alone in the sea, filmed by air and sea.
5-Several Turkish vessels sailing at high speed filmed by sea and air.
6-A fast patrol boat of unknown origin sailing at high speed in the distance, filmed by air.
7-Audio recordings of Turkish communications.
8-Radar screenshot.
9-All these taking place in broad day light.


CONCLUSSION (according to Turkish forumers logic lol)
-----------------------------------------

1-The Greek vessel was inside Turkish territorial waters.
2-It unloaded refugees in the raft.
3-It run away after being spotted.


CONCLUSSION (according to common logic)
----------------------------------------

1-No image of all three vessels in the same frame, not even a distant one (Greek CG vessel, boat, raft), despite the cameras present both on air and sea by the Turkish side.
2-No image of Turkish coast guard vessels approaching the Greek vessel, or in the same frame with it, even a distant one.
3-No image of Greek CG vessel unloading refugees (by the way... did they towed the boat?)
4-No actual proof of the Greek CG vessel being inside the Turkish territorial waters.
5-No actual proof of Greek crew unloading refugees to rafts.
6-No image of the heroic Turkish coast guard crews saving the stranded refugees.
7-No image of those refugees being unloaded on a Turkish port. No interviews of them. NADA!!!


For an add-on comment:

http://www.hurriyet.com.tr/english/
http://www.hurriyet.com.tr/english/5117426.asp?gid=74

I quote:
"The video images were recorded in July 2004, and again this year in late May, and show Greek coast guard boats coming from the Greek islands of Samos and Lesbos"
"In the latest of the video images shot from a Turkish coast guard helicopter, a Greek vessel approaches Turkish waters from the island of Lesbos early in the morning of May 27, 2006. Stopping about 700 meters off the Ayvalik coastline"

So if we are talking about July 2004, then the video showing a Greek Saar coast guard vessel, is actually irrelevant (and off course proves the manipulation from the Turkish side), since there was only one available back then, and it was stationed in Attika for the Olympics.
It actually became operational a few days before the olympics, when the sea trials ended.
If we are talking about late May 2006, then the video is also irrelevant (and off course proves the manipulation from the Turkish side), since all three available Saar vessels were eventually equiped with a main gun, which isn't the case in the video recorded.

Image of the Saar in question:
http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g2...aar4_GR_11.jpg

The Saar in the video obviously has both it's rafts on deck.
Some other fast boats presented are actually used by the DYK, or the Greek equivalent of "Seals", so their presence around the Saar actually corresponds to the sea trials conducted in 2004 just before the Olympics, when both the Coast Guard and the DYK had undertaken a major role in the security of the games.


http://www.hurriyet.com.tr/english/
http://www.hurriyet.com.tr/english/5117426.asp?gid=74

I quote:
"show Greek coast guard boats coming from the Greek islands of Samos and Lesbos leaving groups of Afghani refugees to drift towards Kusadasi and Ayvalik"

Which obviously isn't shown.
We see many things, but none of the kind.
And I will not comment on the specific size ship abilities to approach at 700m distance from the Turkish coasts undetected, when the distance from Lesvos is actually 10Km at the narrowest point.
I guess most of you have GoogleEarth, so do a distance check.



What really is all this about?
One more deliberate attempt of the Turkish authorities to discredit Greece, when in fact the Turkish coast guard is dishonouring it's own humanitarian responcibilities and mission, by deliberately endangering innocent lives, in order to exploit such incidents for propaganda. The fact that whenever they send a ship or vessel to provoke Greek authorities, they make sure there are half a dozen cameras around to video tape it, makes their intention more clear. And off course this clears-out any delussions about the so called "Greco-Turkish" friendship.
Their objective is obviously to create a negative environment where Greek coast guard vessels will actually hesitate to intervene when international law, and illegal immigration issues arise in the region, or when Greek sovereignty is challenged, by fear of being manipulated in the same manner.




HAVE FUN !!!

[HOLLiS]

Just be glad, Greece is not Israel............ OR All hell would break loose on such Violante disregard for human life.

[kinmid]

Seems that the video link provided doesn't work...
Maybe they finally realised their foul-up and took it off the public view... or there is a technical problem for the moment.


So here it is from another source... ...

http://www.network54.com/Forum/24806...tured+on+video

and a direct download link as well...

http://rapidshare.de/files/34004507/...ci_3_.wmv.html


Everything else put aside...
The one and only undisputed FACT of the video and photos, is the Greek coastguard vessel. For which the REAL facts are:

http://www.hurriyet.com.tr/english/
http://www.hurriyet.com.tr/english/5117426.asp?gid=74

I quote:
"The video images were recorded in July 2004, and again this year in late May, and show Greek coast guard boats coming from the Greek islands of Samos and Lesbos"
"In the latest of the video images shot from a Turkish coast guard helicopter, a Greek vessel approaches Turkish waters from the island of Lesbos early in the morning of May 27, 2006. Stopping about 700 meters off the Ayvalik coastline"

So if we are talking about July 2004, then the video showing a Greek Saar coast guard vessel, is actually irrelevant (and off course proves the manipulation from the Turkish side), since there was only one available back then, and it was stationed in Attika for the Olympics.
It actually became operational a few days before the olympics, when the sea trials ended.
If we are talking about late May 2006 or any date after it, then the specific video is also irrelevant (and off course proves the manipulation from the Turkish side), since all three available Saar vessels were eventually equiped with a main gun, which isn't the case in the video recorded.

Image of the Saar in question:
http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g2...aar4_GR_11.jpg



P.S.
If linking to another forum is not allowed, please remove, and I apologise in advance.



HAVE FUN !!!