should the US army adopt the XM8 ?

[Tony Williams]

the m14 will do anything a g3 or fn fal will, plus it is lighter then the fal, and probly the most reliable of the 3 although all are very reliable so it is of little concern.

and the quote are you sure that is not about the m16, as the m16 was created by a commity with the wiz kids, but to my understanding the army was the only one involved in the development of the m14, which by the way won to the fal in trails prooving jsut as accurate more reliable and lighter by a full pound.

bad weapon, i dont think you can say that, it may not float your boat but it was a great weapon in the 7.62 nato. and that bad weapon is still being issued today, and the seals never leave home without it.

If it was so great, how come the FN FAL and HK G3 wiped the floor with it in international sales? Both were bought by literally scores of countries. The poor quality control of M14 production is a matter of record, as is the fact that production was stopped after only a few years. The M14 does hold one record, though; it served as the principal US army rifle for by far the shortest time of any in the 20th Century.

The relatively few M14s which survive in USMC service today are kept as specialist weapons for when more range and punch are required. They have been substantially rebuilt from original production, to get over the quality problems.

Ezell's quote did indeed apply to the M14.

Tony Williams

[MCWARPIG]

Without getting too into details..

Geneva convention = treatment of Prisoners of War....it mentions use of weapons also, but in reference to use against prisoners.

Hague IV = rules of war.... it does not restrict weapons by specific caliber or type of round. It instead says that projectiles "calculated" to inflict excessive damage is illegal.
This is why many countries opt for the cheaper FMJ instead of JHP or other rounds. Use of large caliber machine guns against personnel was considered illegal when Armies specifically calculated the use of such large projectiles against belligerants. It is a matter of either NATO policy or the specific Army's policy.. not the Hague..and definately not the Geneva convention.

Enough of that. Jane's is a source that most of us soldiers reference when we aren't in the loop. Janes is usually right on target. XM8 may serve it's purpose by showcasing new concepts and materials in weaponry. Making it the mainstay of US forces may turn out to be too big of a step. Regardless, most of us aren't in that big of a hurry for a new rifle. A better caliber round is a good combat option.. but costly in training. Think maybe the higher caliber round would be a good option for specific positions in the firesquad, or maybe a specific kind of fire team?

[MEGR]

I like the 556. I've fired 5.56, and find it sufficient to kill a man. As for switching the m16 series with the xm8, well that all depends.. If they are fielding a few (prob with SpecOps units), and they perform exeedingly well, like uber awesome, than we should go to it... However, replacing m16s with xm8 will obviously cost a ton of money. Overall, unless this gun is out-of-this-world good, we should just stick to the m16 that has been doing pretty good so far... Replacing all m16s with xm8 is not easy, and very costly...They (whoever makes these decisions) should take this seriously, and not rush to fielding a crappy rifle like in the M16 earlier stages.

[oldsoak]

Be interesting to know what the ammo stocks of the US are - bet theres million upon million of 5.56 , so I cant see the change calibre in happening quickly. As for changing the rifle, this is probably an easier option. How easy is it to cost effectively convert the m16 series from 5.56 to 6.8 anyone ?

[HELEX]

Be interesting to know what the ammo stocks of the US are - bet theres million upon million of 5.56 , so I cant see the change calibre in happening quickly. As for changing the rifle, this is probably an easier option. How easy is it to cost effectively convert the m16 series from 5.56 to 6.8 anyone ?

Dont know about the M16 but what I know is that a lot of machining is neccesary, but the XM8 can be converted very easy by the soldier himself.

[ibstolidude]

Be interesting to know what the ammo stocks of the US are - bet theres million upon million of 5.56 , so I cant see the change calibre in happening quickly. As for changing the rifle, this is probably an easier option. How easy is it to cost effectively convert the m16 series from 5.56 to 6.8 anyone ?

Dont know about the M16 but what I know is that a lot of machining is neccesary, but the XM8 can be converted very easy by the soldier himself.

again you post **** you nothing about - you can take an M16 and with the changing of the upper reciever shoot as high as .50 cal - it takes about 45 seconds.

[HELEX]

Be interesting to know what the ammo stocks of the US are - bet theres million upon million of 5.56 , so I cant see the change calibre in happening quickly. As for changing the rifle, this is probably an easier option. How easy is it to cost effectively convert the m16 series from 5.56 to 6.8 anyone ?

Dont know about the M16 but what I know is that a lot of machining is neccesary, but the XM8 can be converted very easy by the soldier himself.

again you post **** you nothing about - you can take an M16 and with the changing of the upper reciever shoot as high as .50 cal - it takes about 45 seconds.

Sure, but thats nearly the whole rifle....

At the XM8 you just change the Barrel....

[oldsoak]

so would a change to 6.8mm upper be an option ? Would the magazine well be affected and the magazine catch too ? - I presume thats in the M16 lower section.

[wyrm_142]

so would a change to 6.8mm upper be an option ? Would the magazine well be affected and the magazine catch too ? - I presume thats in the M16 lower section.

Are you talking our current M16/M4 set-ups?

The 6.8 SPC was designed to fit into the mag dimensions on the M16. All that is required is a new upper (or new barrel & bolt to be more precise) and mags that work with the 6.8SPC.

There is NO change to the lower.

Similar type changes would be required for the G36/XM8, SA80, any 5.56 firearm, etc.

[ibstolidude]

Be interesting to know what the ammo stocks of the US are - bet theres million upon million of 5.56 , so I cant see the change calibre in happening quickly. As for changing the rifle, this is probably an easier option. How easy is it to cost effectively convert the m16 series from 5.56 to 6.8 anyone ?

Dont know about the M16 but what I know is that a lot of machining is neccesary, but the XM8 can be converted very easy by the soldier himself.

again you post **** you nothing about - you can take an M16 and with the changing of the upper reciever shoot as high as .50 cal - it takes about 45 seconds.

Sure, but thats nearly the whole rifle....

At the XM8 you just change the Barrel....

so if you knew that again you showed that you are willing to lie, misrepresent and use dishonesty to make the point.

and it isn't nearly the whole rifle it is a design differnce
- and the same can be done with the use of a free floating barrel and barrel lock
- you smug ignorant liar.

Again save us the time simply post things like "hi I am HELEX and I am a flame warrior and will post **** I know nothing about."

Could you explain to me again why I need to change the barrel on my M4 to meet different calibers in the field and since when did this become a requirement for the weapon system....

Also DO you really want to make the statement that inorder to change the XM8 to fire a 6.5/6.8 round all that needs to changed is the barrel?

[oldsoak]

so would a change to 6.8mm upper be an option ? Would the magazine well be affected and the magazine catch too ? - I presume thats in the M16 lower section.

Are you talking our current M16/M4 set-ups?

The 6.8 SPC was designed to fit into the mag dimensions on the M16. All that is required is a new upper (or new barrel & bolt to be more precise) and mags that work with the 6.8SPC.

There is NO change to the lower.

Similar type changes would be required for the G36/XM8, SA80, any 5.56 firearm, etc.

sounds pretty cool. whats the likelyhood of this , anyone know ?

[ibstolidude]

so would a change to 6.8mm upper be an option ? Would the magazine well be affected and the magazine catch too ? - I presume thats in the M16 lower section.

Are you talking our current M16/M4 set-ups?

The 6.8 SPC was designed to fit into the mag dimensions on the M16. All that is required is a new upper (or new barrel & bolt to be more precise) and mags that work with the 6.8SPC.

There is NO change to the lower.

Similar type changes would be required for the G36/XM8, SA80, any 5.56 firearm, etc.

that is correct except that the 6.8 extractor lip can be the same size as the current m16 bolt's - just as you see in the .50 cal Beowulf.

And lets not forget that the FACTORY zeroed sights of the XM8 are going to be zeroed to a specific ammunition (weight/grain). Changing this will require the factory zeroed sights to be re-zeroed, despite HELEX's fantasy of a soldier changing caliber in the field.

I'm not an expert but unlike some people neither do I "pretend" to be.

[HELEX]

so would a change to 6.8mm upper be an option ? Would the magazine well be affected and the magazine catch too ? - I presume thats in the M16 lower section.

Are you talking our current M16/M4 set-ups?

The 6.8 SPC was designed to fit into the mag dimensions on the M16. All that is required is a new upper (or new barrel & bolt to be more precise) and mags that work with the 6.8SPC.

There is NO change to the lower.

Similar type changes would be required for the G36/XM8, SA80, any 5.56 firearm, etc.

that is correct except that the 6.8 extractor lip can be the same size as the current m16 bolt's - just as you see in the .50 cal Beowulf.

And lets not forget that the FACTORY zeroed sights of the XM8 are going to be zeroed to a specific ammunition (weight/grain). Changing this will require the factory zeroed sights to be re-zeroed, despite HELEX's fantasy of a soldier changing caliber in the field.

I'm not an expert but unlike some people neither do I "pretend" to be.

Again you show lacking knowledge, the Laser and Sight are zeroed to each other. But you usually dont know what you talking about.

Read first and than come back:

http://www.hk-usa.com/corporate/medi...omparison1.pdf

[ibstolidude]

so would a change to 6.8mm upper be an option ? Would the magazine well be affected and the magazine catch too ? - I presume thats in the M16 lower section.

Are you talking our current M16/M4 set-ups?

The 6.8 SPC was designed to fit into the mag dimensions on the M16. All that is required is a new upper (or new barrel & bolt to be more precise) and mags that work with the 6.8SPC.

There is NO change to the lower.

Similar type changes would be required for the G36/XM8, SA80, any 5.56 firearm, etc.

that is correct except that the 6.8 extractor lip can be the same size as the current m16 bolt's - just as you see in the .50 cal Beowulf.

And lets not forget that the FACTORY zeroed sights of the XM8 are going to be zeroed to a specific ammunition (weight/grain). Changing this will require the factory zeroed sights to be re-zeroed, despite HELEX's fantasy of a soldier changing caliber in the field.

I'm not an expert but unlike some people neither do I "pretend" to be.

Again you show lacking knowledge, the Laser and Sight are zeroed to each other. But you usually dont know what you talking about.

Read first and than come back:

http://www.hk-usa.com/corporate/medi...omparison1.pdf

I challenge you to find the posts in which: I

usually dont know what you talking about

especially given in the last 2 months or so I can easily find 25+ posts in which you been blatantly wrong, lied, used half truths and dishonest.

are you trying to tell me that if I zero an XM8 to shoot a 5.56 Ball M855 and then change calibers that my weapon will still be on target?

How is that possible when the differences in the grain/weight/caliber will create a different impact point for each round as their ballistics differ. The "path" of the M855 differs even from M197 both 5.56 - so how do you expect the zero to "hold"? and what the hell does that have to do with the "laser"? It doesn't shoot a laser now does it? It shoots a round and the sight and round must be zeroed to that barrel.

[ibstolidude]

[

Dont know about the M16 but what I know is that a lot of machining is neccesary

- By your own source it takes less then 10 minutes to change the M4 barrel. - do you really want to compare who posts erroneous information?