Dutch demand 'Iraq abuse' probe

[Digital Marine]

AMSTERDAM, Netherlands (Reuters) -- A report that Dutch military intelligence abused prisoners in Iraq in 2003 prompted calls on Friday for an investigation, as opposition politicians alleged a government cover-up just days before a general election.

Leading Dutch daily Volkskrant said intelligence officers had abused dozens of prisoners by hosing them with water to keep them awake, exposing them to bright light and blasting them with loud noises during heavy-handed interrogations.

A defense ministry spokesman said the reports were being investigated. He expected the government to make a statement later in the day.
"If these facts are true, they are shocking," Christian Democrat Prime Minister Jan Peter Balkenende told reporters as he entered his office for the regular Friday cabinet meeting.

Balkenende supported the U.S.-led invasion of Iraq and sent Dutch troops to the country in 2003. He withdrew the troops two years later as violence escalated and opposition parties -- which had supported the initial engagement -- grew skeptical.

Although there was originally a broad political consensus in favor of involvement in Iraq, the abuse reports could prove damaging to Balkenende -- leading his Labour rivals in opinion polls just five days before a general election on November 22.
"There is a smell of a cover-up coming off this," Labour leader Wouter Bos was quoted as telling Dutch radio.

Femke Halsema, leader of the opposition Green Left, told Dutch television: "We take it very, very seriously. We can probably all remember the situation in Abu Ghraib.
"If this has indeed been hushed up since 2003, then we must look into what happened."

Since photographs of prisoner abuse by U.S. soldiers at the Abu Ghraib prison in Iraq first emerged, scandals have also erupted in Britain and Germany over the behavior of their troops in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Who knew?

The alleged mistreatment took place in November 2003 in the Al Muthanna province in southern Iraq where about 1,300 Dutch troops were stationed, Volkskrant said.

"Things took place which don't comply with the rules," the newspaper quoted Defense Ministry spokesman Joop Veen as saying, adding he did not know whether Defense Minister Henk Kamp was made aware of what happened. "It was a long time ago and you can't remember everything," he added.

Dutch soldiers are currently involved in a NATO peacekeeping mission in Afghanistan, and this year agreed to send further troops to the area after a protracted parliamentary debate.

Despite a well-equipped military and a tradition of punching above their weight on the international stage, the Dutch have been nervous of risky military engagements since the Srebrenica massacre in 1995.

Lightly-armed Dutch U.N. soldiers, lacking international air support, were forced to yield the Srebrenica enclave to Bosnian Serb forces, who then killed up to 8,000 Muslims who had sought protection from the Dutch troops.

link

....................................

[annihilation]

A defense ministry spokesman said the reports were being investigated. He expected the government to make a statement later in the day.
"If these facts are true, they are shocking," Christian Democrat Prime Minister Jan Peter Balkenende told reporters as he entered his office for the regular Friday cabinet meeting.

Do people just get shocked these days too easily. Last time I check war makes people do terrible things. Im not saying what the soldiers did is right, but we shouldn't also try to think that in the middle of a war everyone is saints.

[sp2c]

I think it's more about them not following their ROE's then actual torture ...

but hey, if the Marechaussee didn't think it was worth mentioning then I'm inclined to agree, remember this was the start of the mission (2003) we'd never done anything like this before so it's probably more a case of establishing the boundary's more then anything else.

besides, you get treated worse in a police cel in the Netherlands ... and these are often referred to as government sponsored hotels

but obviously it's only a week untill elections so that's probably what shocked the prime minister

[paracollector]

Leading Dutch daily Volkskrant said intelligence officers had abused dozens of prisoners by hosing them with water to keep them awake, exposing them to bright light and blasting them with loud noises during heavy-handed interrogations.

Simply shocking! Next thing you know they'll be doing the "panty on the head" torture like the evil US.

What a big bag of stinking butt nuggets.

Between getting hung out to dry over Serbia, and now this prissy crap driven by people who probably never even spent one cold night defending their country, it's a wonder than any Dutchman would bother putting a uniform on.

My heart goes out to my Dutch brothers and sisters.

[Thunder]

Pfff, torture my arse, just the MIVD doing its job. Besides, these people they interrogated probably weren't arrested for handing out candy to children.

[Jobu]

Will the Dutch defense minister be charged with war crimes in Germany?

[Thunder]

Will the Dutch defense minister be charged with war crimes in Germany?

What? ....

[Eggy]

Anyway it's election time and apparently this thing was blown way out of proportion by the volkskrant (which is a left wing newspaper btw). They used loud music to prevent prisoners from communicating with eachother, blinded them with dust goggles to prevent identification of the people questioning them and they left the light on in the cells the prisoners were being kept. At least this was the explanation of the Minister of Defence. He summarised the findings of Dutch MP that investigated the case and concluded that no criminal acts were commited by the Intelligence Officers.

What? ....

Some folks in Germany filed a lawsuit against Donald Rumsfeld over Abu Graib.

[phoilme]

Those wanting the investigation have proclaimed themselves "better than you" and expect others to strive for their "pius" existance. You can recognize them by their rose colored glasses right above their noses pointing to the sky.

[Thunder]

Some folks in Germany filed a lawsuit against Dick Cheney over Abu Graib.

Aah, right. Got it.

Yup, election time. I hate it.

[thscott83]

November Surprise!

[Denat]

these people they interrogated probably weren't arrested for handing out candy to children.

That's the point. I feel sorry for those people abused. But hey, c'est la vie !
Sometimes, especially during the war, MI guys (basically the good guys) do use so called "soft torture" techniques against captured terrorists (basically the bad guys).

[sp2c]

except they weren't abused, not according to the geneva conventions relating to the treatment of prisoners of war.
They were given food, they were given medical attention (one was even flown back to the Netherlands for treatment after he got shot in a firefight because the local hospitals weren't up to the task, he pulled through and is now back in Iraq), the red cross had full access to the prisons at any time and reported NOT A SINGLE PROBLEM with their treatment nor did the prisoners themselves, the Marechaussee (MP and then some ... like Carabinieri afaik) investigated and saw no problem, the justice department was informed about this by the Marechaussee and so no reason to prosecute. The battallion CO wasn't to concerned about it either but he did feel that it was not in accordance to the Dutch "geweldsinstructies" (instructions concerning the use of force ... ROE I suppose) so he took "internal measures" and even the media never picked it up untill now

and now one week before elections, while the biggest lefty opposition party is dropping in the polls faster then an Apache whose two pilots believe the other one is doing the flying, all of a sudden somebody digs up a 3 year old incident that has been investigated and dealt with internally and everybody is shocked!!!