The A2 versions of the SA80, rebuilt by HK and issued from 2001, are very different beasts from the A1s, and are as reliable as any other 5.56mm.
Tony Williams
I choose the FAL. It's havier and longer, but it will fire anytime. When our (Dutch) army was still issued with FAL's, we had a Nato shooting day with near 40 different rifles, MP's and pistols from all over the world, and the SA80 was proud to be the first rifle that jammed and never saw action again. Fortunatly, the Brit's took a second SA80 to the firing line, and guess: That rifle didn't wanted to cycle! So the ther rest of the day everybody shot with a manual loaded SA80.
Only the AK-74, G3 and the FAL still fired at the end of the day.
Few years later in Germany, I was honoured to visit a normal British shooting training. In 2 or 3 hours, 4 different SA80 jammed. And that's only on a clean range!
So If I have too choose between a FAL and a SA80, I'll take the FAL. If I have to choose a battle rifle anyway, I'll take the G36.
Greets,
Roger
The A2 versions of the SA80, rebuilt by HK and issued from 2001, are very different beasts from the A1s, and are as reliable as any other 5.56mm.
Tony Williams
I think the main contrubuting factor was people shooting up primary schools with semi-autos and handguns.Originally Posted by martinexsquaddie
rumour had it they brough in the ban because too many squaddies were looking at buying civi 5.56 rifles
You of course having fired them regularly....
Nope - but I've heard from British soldiers in Iraq who have, and they are very pleased with the gun. For the full story of the SA80's problems and solutions, see: http://www.quarry.nildram.co.uk/SA80.htmYou of course having fired them regularly....
Tony Williams
Sorry. The dig was a tad unfair.
I've used the A2 (and defended it on here) - my dig was at someone who doesn't (hasn't?) served immersing themselves in the characteristics and capabilities of arms and ammunition...
Why not? I think you will find that many of the great gun designers had no military experience. Hiram Maxim? John Browning? John Garand? (I'm not certain about Eugene Stoner). I will grant you Lewis and Kalashnikov (although he was a tanker, not infantry).
Tony Williams
I noted that talked here before about bullpups having grenade launchers, well.. there it is SA 80 with AG36..
And what comes problems, i suggest that you go to http://www.militaryvideos.net and download the "Norwegian firing range drills"...
Sad but true, in that video, firing a single magazine they have multiple feeding problems and "miss fires" and jamms....
With SA 80.. it doesnt look good.
Unien wrote,
So on the basis of one weapon firing one magazine, in your 'professional opinion' the SA-80 doesn't 'look good'.And what comes problems, i suggest that you go to http://www.militaryvideos.net and download the "Norwegian firing range drills"...
Sad but true, in that video, firing a single magazine they have multiple feeding problems and "miss fires" and jamms....
With SA 80.. it doesnt look good.
1. Was the weapon an SA-80 or an SA-80A2?.
2. Have you ever fired the SA-80A2?.
3. Have you 'immersed yourself in the weapons characteristics' and
carried it day in, day out, in an operational enviroment?.
4. Are you speaking from first hand experience or second hand hearsay?.
5. Are you prepared to second guess someone who has professional experience with the weapon as to whether or not the weapon ' looks good' ?.
Tony williams wrote,
I don't understand your statement. Are you comparing yourself to some of histories greatest weapon designers?.Why not? I think you will find that many of the great gun designers had no military experience. Hiram Maxim? John Browning? John Garand? (I'm not certain about Eugene Stoner). I will grant you Lewis and Kalashnikov (although he was a tanker, not infantry).
Who's to say that SA80 wasn't using a ****e magazine? "Multiple feeding problems"? Could be a crappy mag, or some fool seated his rounds crappily. I've used the L85A1/L86A1, never operationally though. I've NEVER had a stoppage on the range while live firing, feed or otherwise. I've had a few problems with blank ammunition, but I gather most weapons aren't as reliable with blank ammo.
Stoner was an US Marine. However, he was in the aviation support trades, and did not see personal combat during WW2.
I would have thought that my point was very obvious - that there is no necessary connection between military service and an interest in weapon design.
Tony Williams
I would go a step further and suggest that there is no necessary connection between military service and weapon knowledge.that there is no necessary connection between military service and an interest in weapon design.
To suggest that just because I never served means I can know nothing about an SLR is rediculous. I have taken my SLR up mountains in weather the Local Territorials cancel exercises for, and I don't have to worry about all the bollocks a grunt has to go through and spend as much time using my rifle as I like. I probably get more shooting time than most soldiers. No I can't march for ****e, and I am never clean shaven. Does that mean I don't know anything about rifles or ballistics?
Many who actually have served don't have any interest at all in firearms... to suggest their opinion should be held above those of others is silly.
Obviously those who have served deserve respect, but it doesn't mean they know everything or are the only source of factual information.
Nobody, but then again whith Valmet and Sako assault rifles ive used, i never had "a ****ty magazine".. IE those are made from good plastic and they wont bend and etc...
You have seen the video right? There it really didnt work, and be as it may that the man firing the rifle was Norwegian, it seemed to me that it was the UK trooper that loaded the mag....
Again, metallic magazines (that are of aluminium and not even steel which would be better...), not a good choise as they get bend and things like that unlike plastic magazines, in fact only problems ive ever had with plastic AK-style mags was once when mag got full of water and froze, in winter, after that it didnt feed... and also sometimes with very old mag, the bottom plate fell off if hit.
Thats true, ive got personal experiences about this with Valmet KVKK LMG, the thing usually wont fire 5 rounds in a row with blanks... but with live ball rounds its realiable as hell.
The Sa80A2 is a lot better now that HK have had a good bash at it. Yes we have had problems with the previous version but the A2 has upped the game a bit.
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