Russian Photos (updated on regular basis)

[evb58362]

Ah, another chat session.

I'll stop here. When we see photos of operational Mi-28Ns with flare dispensers, I'll happily take my words back. For now, I'll use current photos and historic precedence of seemingly senseless decisions to make my judgments about what is and isn't happening on the ground.

[Universals]

Apparently two seperate Naval Infantry battalions got BTR-70M last year.

How many BTR 70s would that come out to be?

[TR1]

This isnt on the ground, it is in the air .

I am also using historic precedence, and it indicates even during cash strapped times Mi-24s were fitted with additional flare dispensers. new Su-34s have them. So they can afford new Su-34s, Mi-28s, miG-29s, T-90s, but no flares for EIGHT helicpters? I am sorry but I refuse to believe such an argument. This is not personal mind you, it just does not seem realistic to me.

[TR1]

How many BTR 70s would that come out to be?

No idea. .

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[evb58362]

My guess is that the flares are missing because they are integrated into the Mi-28N's wingtip pods, which also include some electronic defense sensors (laser warning receivers?), which makes them expensive and something "for later." I think it's just a peculiarity of the program. If so, a stop-gap solution would be to "bolt-on" flares like they did with the Mi-8 and Mi-24. That may happen, I don't know. I just know that I don't see any flares now on the airframes being rolled off the production line and sent into operational service.

[TR1]

My guess is that the flares are missing because they are integrated into the Mi-28N's wingtip pods, which also include some electronic defense sensors (laser warning receivers?), which makes them expensive and something "for later." I think it's just a peculiarity of the program. If so, a stop-gap solution would be to "bolt-on" flares like they did with the Mi-8 and Mi-24. That may happen, I don't know. I just know that I don't see any flares now on the airframes being rolled off the production line and sent into operational service.

That would make sense. Is it at all possible that the pods were just not fitted at the time of the photos, but do exist, perhaps pending delivery to the unit? Even in the face of lacking all the fancy electronics (which is very true) not packing them full of flares is borderline criminal.


also these choppers have the old style stars ?

[evb58362]

I don't even think this is nearly as strange as it seems. It's not unusual for airframe production to undergo a number of changes with new production batches. Previous batches then get up to the latest production standards in overhaul. It's just that in today's Russia, this entire process is stretched over a very small number of airframes and very large number of years. In reality, I think it's just a normal procurement process that we are now privileged to witness "live" thanks to the internet. How long did it take to get the MiG-29 and Su-27 to their final standards in service? And that was with all of the might of the USSR...

[evb58362]

also these choppers have the old style stars ?

Yup. The new stars are on hold. The legislature (Duma?) blocked them.

[TR1]

How many BTR 70s would that come out to be?

I do seem to recall reading that each battalion had 34 vehicles....

[K-5]

HeliRussia 2009, photography by rusleo.
http://photofile.name/users/rusleo/96059123/

[Timmy!]

Sorry if repost.

[dragonunion]

Sorry if repost.

Great pic.
My new wallpaper.

[GazB]

I just know that I don't see any flares now on the airframes being rolled off the production line and sent into operational service.

Flare launchers would not be sent to the factory to be fitted. They are what is called LRU or line replaceable units. In other words they can be fitted on the front line and if used are replaced at the front line. It would be ridiculous to have to send your fleet of helos back to the factory to reload their Flare launchers...

There is a long history of things entering service in the Soviet Union and Russia before all the components were complete and fully operational. With the Mi-28N that will seem to include the various radar components which is not an ideal situation but then the Mi-28N has thermal imager sights to allow operations 24/7 so it is already a huge step above what it is replacing anyway. While I doubt DIRCMs would be ready for it yet because I have never seen then integrated on the Mi-28N, only on the Kamov helos I would expect the rest of its self defence suite to be quite mature and operational. Seeing helos come off the production like without wingtip pods is like the first production model Su-34 that didn't have any seats fitted. The Su-34s flown seem to have had the seats fitted.

[Vipidari]

Your excuse is pretty lame. You fail to explain why those helos are being bought in the first place if they are not needed. New missile systems, Tanks and Aircrafts are being developed and added to the defense Arsenal on a yearly basis because they are necessary to maintain Russia’s national interests home and abroad. By your logic, you must be against all these acquisitions since they are not for fighting terrorists. Also, you must be against the development of the stealth aircraft because it won't be necessary in Dagestan and Ingushetia or because it will be overkill for Saakashvili.
You should realize that with some those “fancy flashlights” as you call them, some of Russian planes downed in Georgia may have returned to base or a pilot’s life could have been saved.
Keep in mind, Russia lost more than a decade after the collapse of the SU and is now trying to make up for lost time in all aspects of national defense (save the SMF).

If my excuse is lame, you live in fantasy land. No Mi-24s were lost in Georgia.

What planes might have been saved in Georgia? Do you have any clue as what you are saying at all? You are suggesting the recon Backfire and Frogfoot aircraft didn't have flares (or chaff, rather)? That is laughable.

Did the US lose aircraft in Iraq? Yes. Did their counter-measures save them every time? No. . . So yes, those choppers don't need every piece of equipment on them right now.

[evb58362]

Flare launchers would not be sent to the factory to be fitted. They are what is called LRU or line replaceable units. In other words they can be fitted on the front line and if used are replaced at the front line. It would be ridiculous to have to send your fleet of helos back to the factory to reload their Flare launchers...

Of course the problem is not the flare launchers themselves, but the wingtip pods. I do agree however. It's possible they are (will be) installed in the field.

There is a long history of things entering service in the Soviet Union and Russia before all the components were complete and fully operational. With the Mi-28N that will seem to include the various radar components which is not an ideal situation but then the Mi-28N has thermal imager sights to allow operations 24/7 so it is already a huge step above what it is replacing anyway. While I doubt DIRCMs would be ready for it yet because I have never seen then integrated on the Mi-28N, only on the Kamov helos I would expect the rest of its self defence suite to be quite mature and operational. Seeing helos come off the production like without wingtip pods is like the first production model Su-34 that didn't have any seats fitted. The Su-34s flown seem to have had the seats fitted.

Heh, I would also expect, but I'm looking at the photos and not seeing any signs of a "defense suite." Agreed about production rolls and in fact we already know this is what will happen with the Mi-28N as it moves from the now in-service model to the upgraded Mi-28NM. The trouble is that the wingtip pods, which include flares, were reported to be slated for the Mi-28NM, not the currently produced Mi-28N.