new italian aircraft carrier Andrea Doria - Page 5

J-10 · 07-19-2004, 10:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FB

When the Garibaldi was launched it was classified as an Incrociatore Portaeromobili (Cruiser "flying means carrier"). At this time Italian Navy did not (and could not by law) even have fixed wing fighting planes. That's why the Garibaldi was launched with such a strange classification: it was an escamotage to bypass the existing laws, waiting for their modification. It was only after several years from the entrance in service of Garibaldi that the Parliament voted the law that authorized the Navy to form its own Air Force and buy the Harriers. After the Harriers were bought and entered into service the Garibaldi was reclassified in Portaerei-Portaeromobili.

That is the reason why, technically speaking, the Cavour is the first carrier.

Best regards

I am waiting for the pic of Cavour launching.

Durandal · 07-19-2004, 10:33 AM

Other than the ill-fated passenger liner, there have been at least two other ships that had this same name...

Both warships...

A pre-1900s dreadnaught used as a battery during World War I

and...

A Duilio Class BB, which were actually Conte di Cavour class ships but were changed following the adoption of the Treaty of Washington.

FB · 07-19-2004, 10:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DPGLAW

I would think that naming that Aircraft carrirer after a ship that sank is probably a bad idea. I saw a show about an Italian cruise liner named Andrea Doria that sunk a long time ago....I don't think that I would want to go on this new one, it will proabably sink too...

It is (better: was as the name will be CAVOUR) not named after the civilian liner that sunk off shore of Terranova years ago, but both the civilian liner and the former name of the carrier are from Andrea Doria, of the Doria family, who ruled the city of Genova when this city was one of the most important powers of the Mediterranean and one of the 4 so called Republiche Marinare (marine republics), the Coats of Arms of which you can see on the Italian Navy flag. The other 3 Repubbliche Marinare were Amalfi, Venezia and Pisa.

Best regards

irra! · 07-19-2004, 10:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by J-10

Quote:

Originally Posted by FB

When the Garibaldi was launched it was classified as an Incrociatore Portaeromobili (Cruiser "flying means carrier"). At this time Italian Navy did not (and could not by law) even have fixed wing fighting planes. That's why the Garibaldi was launched with such a strange classification: it was an escamotage to bypass the existing laws, waiting for their modification. It was only after several years from the entrance in service of Garibaldi that the Parliament voted the law that authorized the Navy to form its own Air Force and buy the Harriers. After the Harriers were bought and entered into service the Garibaldi was reclassified in Portaerei-Portaeromobili.

That is the reason why, technically speaking, the Cavour is the first carrier.

Best regards

I am waiting for the pic of Cavour launching.

coming soon..... (tomorrow)

vryhpyammoadded · 07-19-2004, 04:53 PM

Italy's new carrier...sweet!

Argintina's old carrier...sad to see it go. Wasn't it up for sale for 4 million a few months back or was that someone else's carrier? Did the Brits ever buy it back for a museum?

Deed · 07-20-2004, 08:10 AM

The first photo about Cavour launching :P

Brzeczyszczykiewicz · 07-20-2004, 08:16 AM

^^^
I saw the ceremony at Italian TV.... Quite impressive

I don't speak a word in Italian, so could you give me any specs of this ship?

btw. why it was launched without the bow section?

easyand · 07-20-2004, 08:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brzeczyszczykiewicz

^^^
I saw the ceremony at Italian TV.... Quite impressive

I don't speak a word in Italian, so could you give me any specs of this ship?

btw. why it was launched without the bow section?

It was launched without bow because it was too long to launch with the bow section,the bow section will be attached later.

irra! · 07-20-2004, 08:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brzeczyszczykiewicz

^^^
I saw the ceremony at Italian TV.... Quite impressive

I don't speak a word in Italian, so could you give me any specs of this ship?

btw. why it was launched without the bow section?

it was launched in this way because the bow section has been constructed in another shipyard

hangar : 12 eh 101 / 8 harrier or jsf
length : about 270 m
weight : 27100 tons
crew : about 500 , whit air crew, amphibious troops, special forces and joint command about 1200

irra! · 07-20-2004, 08:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Durandal

Other than the ill-fated passenger liner, there have been at least two other ships that had this same name...

Both warships...

A pre-1900s dreadnaught used as a battery during World War I

and...

A Duilio Class BB, which were actually Conte di Cavour class ships but were changed following the adoption of the Treaty of Washington.

the name of ww2 ship was "conte di Cavour", the name of new aircraft carrier is "Cavour" , therefore it is not the same one

Durandal · 07-20-2004, 09:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by irra!

Quote:

Other than the ill-fated passenger liner, there have been at least two other ships that had this same name...

Both warships...

A pre-1900s dreadnaught used as a battery during World War I

and...

A Duilio Class BB, which were actually Conte di Cavour class ships but were changed following the adoption of the Treaty of Washington.

the name of ww2 ship was "conte di Cavour", the name of new aircraft carrier is "Cavour" , therefore it is not the same one

Actually, if you READ my post I was talking about ships that shared the name "Andrea Doria"

The point of the post is that the name has a "relatively" common usage within the Italian Navy. Much like say...the Lexington in the United States navy and the Ajax in the British. Several ships have shared these names over the years.

With that said...

The Conte di Cavour class of battle ships were being built prior to the Treaty of Washington. The requirements that were placed on Italy gave them reason to stop working on the ships and covert (at least four of them I believe) into the Duilio class.

FB · 07-20-2004, 09:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by irra!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Durandal

Other than the ill-fated passenger liner, there have been at least two other ships that had this same name...

Both warships...

A pre-1900s dreadnaught used as a battery during World War I

and...

A Duilio Class BB, which were actually Conte di Cavour class ships but were changed following the adoption of the Treaty of Washington.

the name of ww2 ship was "conte di Cavour", the name of new aircraft carrier is "Cavour" , therefore it is not the same one

Actually Cavour and Conte di Cavour refer to the same person: Camillo Benso Conte di Cavour. And the ships bearing the word "Cavour" in their name do and did so because they refer to the abovementioned person.

The proper name of the hystorical person was Camillo Benso. Conte di Cavour (Count of Cavour) was his nobility title. But everybody knows him as Conte di Cavour or, simply, Cavour. To this it must be added that with the new Repubblican Constitution the nobility titles were abolished. It is hence possible that the "short" Cavour name was choosen also for this reason.

Best regards

FB · 07-20-2004, 09:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Durandal

Quote:

Originally Posted by irra!

Quote:

Other than the ill-fated passenger liner, there have been at least two other ships that had this same name...

Both warships...

A pre-1900s dreadnaught used as a battery during World War I

and...

A Duilio Class BB, which were actually Conte di Cavour class ships but were changed following the adoption of the Treaty of Washington.

the name of ww2 ship was "conte di Cavour", the name of new aircraft carrier is "Cavour" , therefore it is not the same one

Actually, if you READ my post I was talking about ships that shared the name "Andrea Doria"

The point of the post is that the name has a "relatively" common usage within the Italian Navy. Much like say...the Lexington in the United States navy and the Ajax in the British. Several ships have shared these names over the years.

With that said...

The Conte di Cavour class of battle ships were being built prior to the Treaty of Washington. The requirements that were placed on Italy gave them reason to stop working on the ships and covert (at least four of them I believe) into the Duilio class.

More or less correct, bravo

But the 4 preexsting Battle Ships were converted into 2 different classes (albeit not so different from each other, the main armament, for instance, was the same for the two classes).

DUILIO Class: R.N. Caio Duilio; R.N. Andrea Doria

CAVOUR Class: R.N. Conte di Cavour; R.N. Giulio Cesare

Best regards

Durandal · 07-20-2004, 09:46 AM

I knew of the Cavour class, but I was not aware they were conversions. Cool.

FB · 07-20-2004, 10:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Durandal

I knew of the Cavour class, but I was not aware they were conversions. Cool.

The matter can be a little bit confusing because the 4 original Battle Ships were of only one class, and the class was named Conte di Cavour.

As you correctly poited out, after the Washington Treaty, a lot of navies around the world in the thirties put hands to their old ships and modified/rebuilt them. The Italian Navy (it was called Regia Marina = Royal Navy) chose to work on the existing 4 Battle Ships of the Conte di Cavour class. They did so in two steps: between 1933 and 1937 they worked on R.N. (Regia Nave = Royal Ship) Conte di Cavour and R.N. Giulio Cesare that gave birth to the new Conte di Cavour Class; then, between 1937 and 1940 they worked on R.N. Caio Duilio and R.N. Andrea Doria that gave birth to the Duilio Class. It should be added that the works that took place on those 4 ships was practically a complete reconstruction. Of the original ships were preserved only the hull and the side armor plates.

Best regards

07-19-2004, 10:33 AM	#62
Durandal I've got your hardwood.... right here Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Digging in and waiting it out... Posts: 8,664	Other than the ill-fated passenger liner, there have been at least two other ships that had this same name... Both warships... A pre-1900s dreadnaught used as a battery during World War I and... A Duilio Class BB, which were actually Conte di Cavour class ships but were changed following the adoption of the Treaty of Washington.

07-19-2004, 04:53 PM	#65
vryhpyammoadded Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: The Guild of Calamitous Intent Posts: 2,204	Italy's new carrier...sweet! Argintina's old carrier...sad to see it go. Wasn't it up for sale for 4 million a few months back or was that someone else's carrier? Did the Brits ever buy it back for a museum?

07-20-2004, 08:10 AM	#66
Deed Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Italy Posts: 24	The first photo about Cavour launching :P

07-20-2004, 08:16 AM	#67
Brzeczyszczykiewicz Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 1,594	^^^ I saw the ceremony at Italian TV.... Quite impressive I don't speak a word in Italian, so could you give me any specs of this ship? btw. why it was launched without the bow section?

07-20-2004, 09:46 AM	#74
Durandal I've got your hardwood.... right here Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Digging in and waiting it out... Posts: 8,664	I knew of the Cavour class, but I was not aware they were conversions. Cool.