Saddled with Insas, Army wants new AK-47s

khalsa1699 · 09-06-2009, 05:46 PM

Saddled with Insas, Army wants new AK-47s

Shishir Arya, TNN 7 September 2009, 12:53am IST

NAGPUR: The indigenous 5.56x45mm Insas (Indian National Small Arms System) rifle has been the standard assault weapon for the Indian Army since the late 1990s. However, the jawans using it in counter-insurgency operations find it ineffective.

As part of the new Army doctrine, the gun is meant to incapacitate the enemy, rather than kill. Insas has a smaller calibre, which means it has less power. This is because — and it’s the official view — injuring an enemy can lead to enemy soldiers getting engaged in tending the wounded, thus yielding a tactical battlefield advantage.

The technocrats who interacted with soldiers in the forward areas were told that this theory does not work with terrorists who, apart from attacking in small numbers, are never bothered about evacuating their injured. Hence, the soldiers say, they want to shoot to kill, rather than maim.

The soldiers also spoke about practical difficulties in using Insas. It’s accurate but not as rugged as the AK-47 used by terrorists, they say. Also, its sling often snaps while firing, making it fall during manoeuvres. The sling also obstructs the rifle’s sight. But most of all, the size of the sling never took into account the bullet proof jacket worn by jawans. As a result, it falls short and is uncomfortable to hold. This hampers quick reaction. Insas also does not have a rapid fire feature; it shoots only three rounds in a single burst.

‘‘The barrel overheats with continuous firing. The magazine cracks even on falling, which is common during action. Oil spillage while firing is also major trouble,’’ said a source quoting soldiers. ‘‘Zeroing (adjusting the sight for aim) has to be done each time the rifle is opened to clean or for any other reason. Lack of proper zeroing hampers the working of night vision device,’’ said the same source.

The total additional weight — around 40 kg with bulletproof jacket and signalling equipment — that a soldier carries is also a matter of concern, as is the colour of the rifle: they want it in brown which offers better camouflaging. On the positive side, Insas’s transparent magazine helps soldiers keep a count of bullets.

Former director general of infantry, Lt General Shanker Prasad, said Insas is antiquated and the Infantry needs a modern rifle. The Army has repeatedly asked for new assault weapons, but nothing has moved. It’s learnt that forces are now expecting new indigenously developed AK-47 rifle said to be an improvement on the original.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/n...ow/4979790.cms

Mofreaka · 09-06-2009, 06:21 PM

5.56 vs 7.62 ffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffuuuuuuuuuuu

AKS · 09-06-2009, 06:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by khalsa1699

It’s learnt that forces are now expecting new indigenously developed AK-47 rifle said to be an improvement on the original.

So basically something like a AK 103?

I wonder if Russia is going to make the 7.62 version of AK 107, that also could be a good fit for the Indian army in this case.

stri8ed · 09-06-2009, 07:05 PM

What happened to the tavor?

Soldat_Américain · 09-06-2009, 07:10 PM

Really I never thought the point of the 5.56 was to make the enemy tend the wounded...now that's a dumb thought.

Infanteer Two Seven · 09-06-2009, 07:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stri8ed

What happened to the tavor?

only for SpecOps and Paras.

Infanteer Two Seven · 09-06-2009, 07:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Soldat_Américain

Really I never thought the point of the 5.56 was to make the enemy tend the wounded...now that's a dumb thought.

In Kashmir typical low class houses are made up of classic concrete blocks and stones.

Soldat_Américain · 09-06-2009, 07:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Infanteer Two Seven

In Kashmir typical low class houses are made up of classic concrete blocks and stones.

That's a much better argument for a higher caliber rifle than the dumb OP was giving. At that point I'd just put a 203/mk19 round down range anyways.

wild_wild_wes · 09-06-2009, 08:01 PM

Is this really a new story? In the Pics of the Day posts, many pics already show Indian troops using new-made AK-103s.

Flamming_Python · 09-06-2009, 08:07 PM

Transparent magazines? Injuring the enemy?

Sounds like the Indians have a lot of interesting ideas of their own when it comes to warfare...

wild_wild_wes · 09-06-2009, 08:10 PM

Not to mention all the drama about slings....

pg_ord · 09-06-2009, 08:38 PM

It is Times of India .... you would have to waddle through a whole lot of bullsh1t before you can get any useful info.

.... not worth it most of the times.

TR1 · 09-06-2009, 08:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mofreaka

5.56 vs 7.62 ffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffuuuuuuuuuuu

hahahahaahahahahah

Panchito12 · 09-06-2009, 09:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Soldat_Américain

That's a much better argument for a higher caliber rifle than the dumb OP was giving. At that point I'd just put a 203/mk19 round down range anyways.

That's overkill. Ma Duece goes right through the walls.

Soldat_Américain · 09-06-2009, 09:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Panchito12

That's overkill. Ma Duece goes right through the walls.

But how many soldiers do you know willing to carry around a Ma Deuce?

09-06-2009, 05:46 PM	#1
khalsa1699 Banned user Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Bharat Posts: 718	Saddled with Insas, Army wants new AK-47s Saddled with Insas, Army wants new AK-47s Shishir Arya, TNN 7 September 2009, 12:53am IST NAGPUR: The indigenous 5.56x45mm Insas (Indian National Small Arms System) rifle has been the standard assault weapon for the Indian Army since the late 1990s. However, the jawans using it in counter-insurgency operations find it ineffective. As part of the new Army doctrine, the gun is meant to incapacitate the enemy, rather than kill. Insas has a smaller calibre, which means it has less power. This is because — and it’s the official view — injuring an enemy can lead to enemy soldiers getting engaged in tending the wounded, thus yielding a tactical battlefield advantage. The technocrats who interacted with soldiers in the forward areas were told that this theory does not work with terrorists who, apart from attacking in small numbers, are never bothered about evacuating their injured. Hence, the soldiers say, they want to shoot to kill, rather than maim. The soldiers also spoke about practical difficulties in using Insas. It’s accurate but not as rugged as the AK-47 used by terrorists, they say. Also, its sling often snaps while firing, making it fall during manoeuvres. The sling also obstructs the rifle’s sight. But most of all, the size of the sling never took into account the bullet proof jacket worn by jawans. As a result, it falls short and is uncomfortable to hold. This hampers quick reaction. Insas also does not have a rapid fire feature; it shoots only three rounds in a single burst. ‘‘The barrel overheats with continuous firing. The magazine cracks even on falling, which is common during action. Oil spillage while firing is also major trouble,’’ said a source quoting soldiers. ‘‘Zeroing (adjusting the sight for aim) has to be done each time the rifle is opened to clean or for any other reason. Lack of proper zeroing hampers the working of night vision device,’’ said the same source. The total additional weight — around 40 kg with bulletproof jacket and signalling equipment — that a soldier carries is also a matter of concern, as is the colour of the rifle: they want it in brown which offers better camouflaging. On the positive side, Insas’s transparent magazine helps soldiers keep a count of bullets. Former director general of infantry, Lt General Shanker Prasad, said Insas is antiquated and the Infantry needs a modern rifle. The Army has repeatedly asked for new assault weapons, but nothing has moved. It’s learnt that forces are now expecting new indigenously developed AK-47 rifle said to be an improvement on the original. http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/n...ow/4979790.cms

09-06-2009, 06:21 PM	#2
Mofreaka Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Greenfield, MA Posts: 1,150	5.56 vs 7.62 ffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffuuuuuuuuuuu

09-06-2009, 07:05 PM	#4
stri8ed Member Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 153	What happened to the tavor?

09-06-2009, 07:10 PM	#5
Soldat_Américain Super Boot. Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Ass End First, Anus End Forward, Anal Enema Flatulent (AEF) Age: 21 Posts: 5,284	Really I never thought the point of the 5.56 was to make the enemy tend the wounded...now that's a dumb thought.

09-06-2009, 08:01 PM	#9
wild_wild_wes Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: In the gym Age: 44 Posts: 1,089	Is this really a new story? In the Pics of the Day posts, many pics already show Indian troops using new-made AK-103s.

09-06-2009, 08:07 PM	#10
Flamming_Python Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Spying on the Eurowoosies Posts: 3,996	Transparent magazines? Injuring the enemy? Sounds like the Indians have a lot of interesting ideas of their own when it comes to warfare...

09-06-2009, 08:10 PM	#11
wild_wild_wes Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: In the gym Age: 44 Posts: 1,089	Not to mention all the drama about *slings*....

09-06-2009, 08:38 PM	#12
pg_ord Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: Southerner Posts: 931	It is Times of India .... you would have to waddle through a whole lot of bullsh1t before you can get any useful info. .... not worth it most of the times.