Best course that i ever did :-)

MOKA.ROUX · 11-03-2009, 03:02 AM

this has got to be the best course that i have ever attended. one of the hardest but the most fun and rewarding.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DH1UCbKsrWM

linky to course info Defensive Driving Course

(tried to embed the video but am too thick!)

Sand Man · 11-03-2009, 03:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MOKA.ROUX

this has got to be the best course that i have ever attended. one of the hardest but the most fun and rewarding.

linky to course info Defensive Driving Course

(tried to embed the video but am too thick!)

Cool vid. Thanks.

Job requirement?

MOKA.ROUX · 11-03-2009, 03:37 AM

we did this course for pre-deployment training for Africa. the course covers anti-hijack etc. taught by former Brit Police and former SAS. the course is the dogs nuts!

very hard thou and loads of pre-reading and exams throughout.

the video really only shows a bit of what we did - and only the "off-road" section of the course.

Mormaeglin · 11-03-2009, 03:57 AM

It seems that this course was truly pro, excellent video, it gives me impression how it looks like in real scenario. I must admit that one has to posses great skill to perform such maneuvers.

MOKA.ROUX · 11-03-2009, 04:50 AM

it was very professional; more professional than some military courses that i have attended; and i have to say they looked after us really well - could not face chocolate biscuits again for at least a week

they put us through loads of scenario's, using different types of cars of diffent makes, power, weight etc. the driver training was second to none and i now drive like a pro at home and at work.

lee8 · 11-03-2009, 05:21 AM

Sorry guys, but that vid and training was crap.

J turns is school boy level and frankly useless.

Especially in a Pug 406GTI.

A pro course for proffesionals would be using a vehicle with a bit more poke in the power region.

Try doin a J turn from a 406 into a M5 or Sand Rover.

If one guy is taking shots at you in the scenario, you don`t stop, put into reverse like that, you drive sraight at the dude.

You be supprised how quickly a guy stops shooting when you drive straight at him.

You`d have plenty of time, the guy with the AK wasn`t exactly covert, which is another reason why the course is crap, you need training from the really world, reminded me of Ultimate Force programme with Ross Kemp, now there is a hard man.

Looks like one of the many close protection businesses operating around the disussed airfields of Herefordshire, just to give a bit more credibility to the firms credentials.

No I would not want to go live after a course such as that shown in the vid.

MOKA.ROUX · 11-03-2009, 05:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lee8

Sorry guys, but that vid and training was crap.

J turns is school boy level and frankly useless.

Especially in a Pug 406GTI.

A pro course for proffesionals would be using a vehicle with a bit more poke in the power region.

Try doin a J turn from a 406 into a M5 or Sand Rover.

If one guy is taking shots at you in the scenario, you don`t stop, put into reverse like that, you drive sraight at the dude.

You be supprised how quickly a guy stops shooting when you drive straight at him.

You`d have plenty of time, the guy with the AK wasn`t exactly covert, which is another reason why the course is crap, you need training from the really world, reminded me of Ultimate Force programme with Ross Kemp, now there is a hard man.

Looks like one of the many close protection businesses operating around the disussed airfields of Herefordshire, just to give a bit more credibility to the firms credentials.

No I would not want to go live after a course such as that shown in the vid.

Think that you are being rather unfair and maybe have an axe to grind??

The course was held in Gloucestershire, not Herefordshire. And as for the scenario training, it was second to none.

Also think that you are missing the point of what was going on in the video - its training and youre only seeing a very small part of it to say the least.

As for credibility, the company in question was awarded the 3year UN contract for defensive driver training last year; so they dont need to "be in Hereford" for credibility. we used about 12 different types of vehicle of differnt powers/weights etc - makes purfect scense to me...

And as for "If one guy is taking shots at you in the scenario, you don`t stop, put into reverse like that, you drive sraight at the dude." No, you wouldnt, not unless you had to. the idea is to get out as safely as possible with the car and all personnel still operational - not to put people in danger.

The course is aimed at diplomatic drivers, the UN, NGO's and Close Protection officers; not at people with a mindset such as yours.

RFSU · 11-03-2009, 06:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lee8

Sorry guys, but that vid and training was crap.

J turns is school boy level and frankly useless.

Especially in a Pug 406GTI.

A pro course for proffesionals would be using a vehicle with a bit more poke in the power region.

Try doin a J turn from a 406 into a M5 or Sand Rover.

If one guy is taking shots at you in the scenario, you don`t stop, put into reverse like that, you drive sraight at the dude.

You be supprised how quickly a guy stops shooting when you drive straight at him.

You`d have plenty of time, the guy with the AK wasn`t exactly covert, which is another reason why the course is crap, you need training from the really world, reminded me of Ultimate Force programme with Ross Kemp, now there is a hard man.

Looks like one of the many close protection businesses operating around the disussed airfields of Herefordshire, just to give a bit more credibility to the firms credentials.

No I would not want to go live after a course such as that shown in the vid.

You are making a lot of assumptions there. All you have to go on is the footage posted. It seems that what was shown was just j-turn practice. For all we know there may have been other options/scenarios covered. While I only saw one Hollywood quality maneuver in the footage that does not mean that the course this guy did is entirely without merit. It costs a fair bit of cash and expertise to put on the sort of defensive/offensive driving course offered to special police and military units.

As MOKA.ROUX mentioned this course is aimed at the UN and NGO's (on an individual basis I would assume). The idea is probably not to train people to the sort of level alluded to in SAS/SBS/14 Int. books but rather to give them a basic idea of how to react if they were to find themselves in the sh1t. That being said I would hope that CP personnel would have already received this sort of training from the military or police (though I understand this is not always the case).

MOKA.ROUX · 11-03-2009, 07:34 AM

RFSU, thanks for chippin in

The course was taught on a very low 3-1 student to instructor ratio.

The course is based on the 14Int course but is only a basic course, so is 7 days, not six weks long!

Being Ex Army myself, i can tell you that you dont get Defensive Driver Training in the Army, nor do Close Protection Officers get this training as part of the SIA Certificated course.

I am aware that alot of Close Protection officers undertake this driving course as we found it listed on the Close Protection World website, where it has received rave reviews as beign the best defensive/evasive driving course on the market for hostile enviroments.

Digital Marine · 11-03-2009, 08:28 AM

I don't know if driving straight at a gunman would be helpful.

Isn't that what suicide bombers do at checkpoints?

Look how they end up most of the time!

Lasse · 11-03-2009, 09:12 AM

What we learned was that if you are close to your threat, just ram it. Breaking\Reverse will make you a target for way longer than if you actually speed up.

Mormaeglin · 11-03-2009, 09:28 AM

Please forgive me my intrusion, but why MOKA.ROUX was banned?

lee8 · 11-03-2009, 09:38 AM

I was goin on the Scenario being shown.

J turns are great, if your a police officer and someone starts throwing bricks at your vehicle.

This wasn`t happening.

A guy is shooting at you with an AK47, so your having a bad day, its unlikely to get much better.

Doin J turns allows the gunman several angles on which to enter bullets into your vehicle, you are presenting a large target when you turn and expose all passengers.

Driving at the vehicle is a standard reaction to a high threat level, it exposes the driver and front passenger, sure, but so does a side on turn.

The reaction time is much quicker.

If your passenger or location has a threat level such as that scenario and your in a single vehicle with no support, then your really bad at your job.

This scenario is more likely to occur when the passengers are covert and not carrying a Client.

Too which you would drive straight through the shooter/s, reverse away, long way before J turning.

The vehicle should have travelled at least 100 meters in reverse before.

Sorry, but posting this rubbish is just an attempt to advertise to armchair wannabes.

I guess the people selling the course would defend it and rubbish my comments.

I don`t have issue with that, I`m not doin the course.

CantGetRight · 11-03-2009, 10:13 AM

if this is the course I think it is, its an annual requirement, redundant, needless, bs

homerjsimpson94 · 11-03-2009, 11:24 AM

I'm not a SME on DD whatsoever BUT, as the OP has said that this course was taught by Brit Police and formes SAS, one thing that JUMPED out at me was the dude that had a stoppage (57 sec mk) with his sidearm and attempted to clear it by rotating it to the left(??) almost turned the weapon upside down trying to get out what looked like a double feed?

Just looks suspicious to me...

11-03-2009, 03:02 AM	#1
MOKA.ROUX Banned user Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 37	Best course that i ever did :-) this has got to be the best course that i have ever attended. one of the hardest but the most fun and rewarding. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DH1UCbKsrWM linky to course info Defensive Driving Course (tried to embed the video but am too thick!)

11-03-2009, 03:37 AM	#3
MOKA.ROUX Banned user Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 37	we did this course for pre-deployment training for Africa. the course covers anti-hijack etc. taught by former Brit Police and former SAS. the course is the dogs nuts! very hard thou and loads of pre-reading and exams throughout. the video really only shows a bit of what we did - and only the "off-road" section of the course.

11-03-2009, 03:57 AM	#4
Mormaeglin Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Prussia Age: 24 Posts: 783	It seems that this course was truly pro, excellent video, it gives me impression how it looks like in real scenario. I must admit that one has to posses great skill to perform such maneuvers.

11-03-2009, 04:50 AM	#5
MOKA.ROUX Banned user Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 37	it was very professional; more professional than some military courses that i have attended; and i have to say they looked after us really well - could not face chocolate biscuits again for at least a week they put us through loads of scenario's, using different types of cars of diffent makes, power, weight etc. the driver training was second to none and i now drive like a pro at home and at work.

11-03-2009, 05:21 AM	#6
lee8 Junior Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 9	Sorry guys, but that vid and training was crap. J turns is school boy level and frankly useless. Especially in a Pug 406GTI. A pro course for proffesionals would be using a vehicle with a bit more poke in the power region. Try doin a J turn from a 406 into a M5 or Sand Rover. If one guy is taking shots at you in the scenario, you don`t stop, put into reverse like that, you drive sraight at the dude. You be supprised how quickly a guy stops shooting when you drive straight at him. You`d have plenty of time, the guy with the AK wasn`t exactly covert, which is another reason why the course is crap, you need training from the really world, reminded me of Ultimate Force programme with Ross Kemp, now there is a hard man. Looks like one of the many close protection businesses operating around the disussed airfields of Herefordshire, just to give a bit more credibility to the firms credentials. No I would not want to go live after a course such as that shown in the vid.

11-03-2009, 07:34 AM	#9
MOKA.ROUX Banned user Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 37	RFSU, thanks for chippin in The course was taught on a very low 3-1 student to instructor ratio. The course is based on the 14Int course but is only a basic course, so is 7 days, not six weks long! Being Ex Army myself, i can tell you that you dont get Defensive Driver Training in the Army, nor do Close Protection Officers get this training as part of the SIA Certificated course. I am aware that alot of Close Protection officers undertake this driving course as we found it listed on the Close Protection World website, where it has received rave reviews as beign the best defensive/evasive driving course on the market for hostile enviroments.

11-03-2009, 08:28 AM	#10
Digital Marine Feel good user title Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 10,129	I don't know if driving straight at a gunman would be helpful. Isn't that what suicide bombers do at checkpoints? Look how they end up most of the time!

11-03-2009, 09:12 AM	#11
Lasse Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Snow cave Age: 21 Posts: 332	What we learned was that if you are close to your threat, just ram it. Breaking\Reverse will make you a target for way longer than if you actually speed up.

11-03-2009, 09:28 AM	#12
Mormaeglin Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Prussia Age: 24 Posts: 783	Please forgive me my intrusion, but why MOKA.ROUX was banned?

11-03-2009, 09:38 AM	#13
lee8 Junior Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 9	I was goin on the Scenario being shown. J turns are great, if your a police officer and someone starts throwing bricks at your vehicle. This wasn`t happening. A guy is shooting at you with an AK47, so your having a bad day, its unlikely to get much better. Doin J turns allows the gunman several angles on which to enter bullets into your vehicle, you are presenting a large target when you turn and expose all passengers. Driving at the vehicle is a standard reaction to a high threat level, it exposes the driver and front passenger, sure, but so does a side on turn. The reaction time is much quicker. If your passenger or location has a threat level such as that scenario and your in a single vehicle with no support, then your really bad at your job. This scenario is more likely to occur when the passengers are covert and not carrying a Client. Too which you would drive straight through the shooter/s, reverse away, long way before J turning. The vehicle should have travelled at least 100 meters in reverse before. Sorry, but posting this rubbish is just an attempt to advertise to armchair wannabes. I guess the people selling the course would defend it and rubbish my comments. I don`t have issue with that, I`m not doin the course.

11-03-2009, 10:13 AM	#14
CantGetRight Suspended for infractions Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 584	if this is the course I think it is, its an annual requirement, redundant, needless, bs

11-03-2009, 11:24 AM	#15
homerjsimpson94 Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Canada Posts: 432	I'm not a SME on DD whatsoever BUT, as the OP has said that this course was taught by Brit Police and formes SAS, one thing that JUMPED out at me was the dude that had a stoppage (57 sec mk) with his sidearm and attempted to clear it by rotating it to the left(??) almost turned the weapon upside down trying to get out what looked like a double feed? Just looks suspicious to me...