reinstating the iron cross

towelie · 12-08-2005, 09:55 PM

I guess this is mainly for the german members, but anyways do you all think that the iron cross should be reinstated in the bundeswehr? Im not sure what the highest medal is now, but I know for sure that it isnt the Iron Cross.

Personally I think it should be reinstated at a time of war; it has no nazi conotations since it was created way before the nazis came to power, and most vechiles have the iron cross painted on them.

just a thought.

evanfitz · 12-08-2005, 10:37 PM

Isn't the German military signature the Iron Cross?
Don't see anything wrong with the metal, but im sure its got reasons.

JoaMei · 12-08-2005, 10:55 PM

What medals are actually available now? Whats the highest?

towelie · 12-08-2005, 11:04 PM

http://www.treff.bundeswehr.de/C1256...THMFN378CKUADE

thats all the medals and awards that are available.

Gordon · 12-08-2005, 11:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by towelie

I guess this is mainly for the german members, but anyways do you all think that the iron cross should be reinstated in the bundeswehr? Im not sure what the highest medal is now, but I know for sure that it isnt the Iron Cross.

Personally I think it should be reinstated at a time of war; it has no nazi conotations since it was created way before the nazis came to power, and most vechiles have the iron cross painted on them.

just a thought.

I didn't know it was ever the highest, i thought that was the Knights Cross (with all the other gold, diamond garbage they junked on it). Maybe i'm just being pinickety though, i'm not sure.

towelie · 12-08-2005, 11:28 PM

the knights cross was the highest medal during ww2. I think the highest was actually the pour le merite, but the Iron cross was the 2nd highest, something like that.

Crassus · 12-08-2005, 11:44 PM

Knight´s Cross with oakleves, swords and diamods. With the Golden oakleaves was given only to Hans-Ulrich Rudel.

all in all KC was given 7000 soldiers in the army of 13 million.

Atlantic Friend · 12-09-2005, 03:33 AM

Why on Earth shouldn't the Bundeswehr award his soldiers with the Iron Cross, if they satisfy to the old requirements ? It's a Malta Cross, not a Swastika, and it's the malta cross the Luftwaffe's symbol already.

Germany is an adult democratic nation, and has been for quite a long time. Her soldiers wearing Iron Crosses won't change that.

a_very_ex_STAB · 12-09-2005, 03:45 AM

My wife's great uncle was awarded the Knights Cross in WW2.

kk111 · 12-09-2005, 06:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Atlantic Friend

It's a Malta Cross, not a Swastika...

it´s a teutonic cross.

Killtokk · 12-09-2005, 08:25 AM

The iron cross was instaured like a good service medal by Napoleon,

and most of the Symbols used by Hitler, were symbols of other cultures before he was born,
like the Svastika, or the Runes,

don't forget that Hitler was very studied about Celtic and Viking Culture, and his symbols, like Runes (all Waffen divisions weared one of this Celtic symbol betwen others), Crosses, etc. Hitler was sure to his soldiers were to the Valhalla when died, preparing for his own Ragnarok, all of this from the viking culture.

Theese things are the reason why most people, without knowledge think all these symbols are from Nazis.

California Joe · 12-09-2005, 09:29 AM

The Blue Max is still the coolest.

Esszett · 12-09-2005, 09:41 AM

For the history of the Iron Cross look here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_Cross

The Iron Cross is only awarded in wartime.
And the Bundeswehr has never been involved in a real war.
(I don't count the Kosovo- and Afghanistan wars in as they were more limited "military-operations" IMO)

But I think it is possible that the Iron Cross could be awarded again in wartime.

The Knight's Cross is a higher grade of the Iron Cross (it's called "Knights Cross of the Iron Cross" -> see link) and is a Nazi-only medal.

The highest medal on German side in WW I was the "Pour le Merite", nicknamed "Der Blaue Max". -> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pour_le_M%C3%A9rite

If I ever had to go to war for my country it would be the highest honor for me to receive the Iron Cross since it has always been THE symbol of bravery, loyality and chivalry (the reason why it was chosen as the symbol of the Bundeswehr).

Crassus · 12-09-2005, 10:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Esszett

If I ever had to go to war for my country it would be the highest honor for me to receive the Iron Cross since it has always been THE symbol of bravery, loyality and chivalry (the reason why it was chosen as the symbol of the Bundeswehr).

I´m not going try to start a flame war but during WWII many obscure persons got high awards while serving Wermacht. For example: Theodor Eicke (father of consentration camps) KC with oakleaves, Josef Mengele (we all know his record) EK I, Oskar Dirlewanger (interesting sociopath) KC.

What I am trying to say is, go ahead restore Iron Cross but do not get upset if people mention these kind of characters during discussions. These persons have nothing to do with Bundeswehr but there are sensitive groups that have lot of media power.

Esszett · 12-09-2005, 10:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crassus

I´m not going try to start a flame war but during WWII many obscure persons got high awards while serving Wermacht. For example: Theodor Eicke (father of consentration camps) KC with oakleaves, Josef Mengele (we all know his record) EK I, Oskar Dirlewanger (interesting sociopath) KC.

What I am trying to say is, go ahead restore Iron Cross but do not get upset if people mention these kind of characters during discussions. These persons have nothing to do with Bundeswehr but there are sensitive groups that have lot of media power.

You are right, many obscure persons got high awards while serving in the Wehrmacht. Noone doubts that. I wouldn't mind if people mentioned these kind of characters. This is part of my nation's history. Sad but true.

But that doesn't change the fact that the Iron Cross already existed long before WW II (see the links in my previous post) and many honorable men (even in WW II) have been awarded with the Iron Cross for bravery, loyality and chivalry.
Admitting that the Iron Cross also has been awarded to obscure persons under a criminal regime doesn't discredit the Iron Cross itself IMO.
And many Germans think like me. That is the reason why the Iron Cross has been chosen as the symbol of the Bundeswehr and many WW II-veterans who later served in the Bundeswehr wore their Iron Crosses with pride on their new uniforms.
I know this is highly argued here but I don't think that all German soldiers in WW II were criminals and that the majority of them just did their duty for their country.
This said I think there is no reason why the Iron Cross should not be awarded in possible future wars again.

12-08-2005, 09:55 PM	#1
towelie Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Austin, Texas Age: 22 Posts: 1,057	reinstating the iron cross I guess this is mainly for the german members, but anyways do you all think that the iron cross should be reinstated in the bundeswehr? Im not sure what the highest medal is now, but I know for sure that it isnt the Iron Cross. Personally I think it should be reinstated at a time of war; it has no nazi conotations since it was created way before the nazis came to power, and most vechiles have the iron cross painted on them. just a thought.

12-08-2005, 10:37 PM	#2
evanfitz Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: You can do anything at Zombo.com, anything at all Age: 2 Posts: 1,377	Isn't the German military signature the Iron Cross? Don't see anything wrong with the metal, but im sure its got reasons.

12-08-2005, 10:55 PM	#3
JoaMei Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Magna Germania Posts: 4,264	What medals are actually available now? Whats the highest?

12-08-2005, 11:04 PM	#4
towelie Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Austin, Texas Age: 22 Posts: 1,057	http://www.treff.bundeswehr.de/C1256...THMFN378CKUADE thats all the medals and awards that are available.

12-08-2005, 11:28 PM	#6
towelie Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Austin, Texas Age: 22 Posts: 1,057	the knights cross was the highest medal during ww2. I think the highest was actually the pour le merite, but the Iron cross was the 2nd highest, something like that.

12-08-2005, 11:44 PM	#7
Crassus Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 248	Knight´s Cross with oakleves, swords and diamods. With the Golden oakleaves was given only to Hans-Ulrich Rudel. all in all KC was given 7000 soldiers in the army of 13 million.

12-09-2005, 03:33 AM	#8
Atlantic Friend Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Milgram Experiment byproduct Age: 39 Posts: 6,291	Why on Earth shouldn't the Bundeswehr award his soldiers with the Iron Cross, if they satisfy to the old requirements ? It's a Malta Cross, not a Swastika, and it's the malta cross the Luftwaffe's symbol already. Germany is an adult democratic nation, and has been for quite a long time. Her soldiers wearing Iron Crosses won't change that.

12-09-2005, 03:45 AM	#9
a_very_ex_STAB Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: In all manner of unsuitable locations, usually at night, invariably with a number of ladies. Posts: 6,567	My wife's great uncle was awarded the Knights Cross in WW2.

12-09-2005, 08:25 AM	#11
Killtokk Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 246	The iron cross was instaured like a good service medal by Napoleon, and most of the Symbols used by Hitler, were symbols of other cultures before he was born, like the Svastika, or the Runes, don't forget that Hitler was very studied about Celtic and Viking Culture, and his symbols, like Runes (all Waffen divisions weared one of this Celtic symbol betwen others), Crosses, etc. Hitler was sure to his soldiers were to the Valhalla when died, preparing for his own Ragnarok, all of this from the viking culture. Theese things are the reason why most people, without knowledge think all these symbols are from Nazis.

12-09-2005, 09:29 AM	#12
California Joe No Good Bloody Seppo Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Staring at goats till their hearts explode... Age: 46 Posts: 25,421	The Blue Max is still the coolest.

12-09-2005, 09:41 AM	#13
Esszett Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Germany Age: 27 Posts: 348	For the history of the Iron Cross look here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_Cross The Iron Cross is only awarded in wartime. And the Bundeswehr has never been involved in a real war. (I don't count the Kosovo- and Afghanistan wars in as they were more limited "military-operations" IMO) But I think it is possible that the Iron Cross could be awarded again in wartime. The Knight's Cross is a higher grade of the Iron Cross (it's called "Knights Cross of the Iron Cross" -> see link) and is a Nazi-only medal. The highest medal on German side in WW I was the "Pour le Merite", nicknamed "Der Blaue Max". -> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pour_le_M%C3%A9rite If I ever had to go to war for my country it would be the highest honor for me to receive the Iron Cross since it has always been THE symbol of bravery, loyality and chivalry (the reason why it was chosen as the symbol of the Bundeswehr).