US International Division

David Tate · 06-14-2006, 02:51 PM

So... what if:

The US decided to create a division, totally seperate of the US Army, as an international division that would be used in international efforts like Afghanistan and Kosovo?
Much of the problem with the US working with NATO and other coalitions, is that the US has big issues with their troops serving under a foreign command. So... what if we formed a volunteer international division. Maybe based in former Yugoslavia, Poland or Romania.
This unit would be formed under the understanding they would be a part of an international effort that, often times, would fall under a foreign command.

Thoughts?

PS - This is just thinking out loud and is not connected to any such planning that I know of... just curious about pros and cons from some like minded folks.

Superking · 06-14-2006, 03:03 PM

Can i join?

AROUETLJ · 06-14-2006, 03:04 PM

I think it would be easier to use existing formations, and to knock some sense into the military-political leadership. A soldier will fight wherever he's told to, and under whichever command. It's the people at the top who are concerned with the petty squabbles and narcissistic patriotism.

Quite apart from the fact that one division wouldn't be enough.

KB · 06-14-2006, 03:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Tate

So... what if:

The US decided to create a division, totally seperate of the US Army, as an international division that would be used in international efforts like Afghanistan and Kosovo?
Much of the problem with the US working with NATO and other coalitions, is that the US has big issues with their troops serving under a foreign command. So... what if we formed a volunteer international division. Maybe based in former Yugoslavia, Poland or Romania.
This unit would be formed under the understanding they would be a part of an international effort that, often times, would fall under a foreign command.

Thoughts?

PS - This is just thinking out loud and is not connected to any such planning that I know of... just curious about pros and cons from some like minded folks.

Modelled on the French Foreign Legion? Would be worth exploring...

tyovan4 · 06-14-2006, 03:57 PM

Its kind of been done here before actually - the Irish Brigade in the Civil War.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_Brigade_%28US%29

Minardiau · 06-14-2006, 04:15 PM

I've always wondered why the Americans never allow their troops to fight under the command of another countries general.

ttunavy · 06-14-2006, 04:16 PM

congress already whines enough about military spending so i couldnt see them shelling out the kind of cash it would require to form this. they would also have to work out the citizenship and clearances issues.

Asheren · 06-14-2006, 04:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Tate

So... what if:

The US decided to create a division, totally seperate of the US Army, as an international division that would be used in international efforts like Afghanistan and Kosovo?
Much of the problem with the US working with NATO and other coalitions, is that the US has big issues with their troops serving under a foreign command. So... what if we formed a volunteer international division. Maybe based in former Yugoslavia, Poland or Romania.
This unit would be formed under the understanding they would be a part of an international effort that, often times, would fall under a foreign command.

Thoughts?

PS - This is just thinking out loud and is not connected to any such planning that I know of... just curious about pros and cons from some like minded folks.

I don't think its possible. Moment you would create US haters all over the world would point their fingers and cry. mercs mercs US is using mercenaries to do dirty work bad US bad

Eudes · 06-14-2006, 04:21 PM

Dont see the point really. Starting an Army outside the US is a very dangerous thing - ask the French. We have a very professional military, no need to start a Legion to do a job I am ready and willing to do.

Laworkerbee · 06-14-2006, 04:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Minardiau

I've always wondered why the Americans never allow their troops to fight under the command of another countries general.

They have before when its been warranted

I can only think of the Abraham Lincoln Brigade that fought in the Spanish civil war, or perhaps the flying Tigers flying as China's airforce against the Japanese as the only times Americans have fought overseas with tacit US government approval.

tsuri · 06-14-2006, 04:31 PM

It might generally be a nice idea for the US to create a foreign legion. I do not agree with the reasons you give however.

US Generals are afraid of putting their troops under foreign command. Will it help to put foreign troops under foreign command? Those troops will very likely be soldiers of fortune and betrayal is possible and likely.

If they would be used so no American Mother loses her son in some war, then not a good idea as one division would hardly be noticeable in such a gigantic military machinery the US Military is.

Plus many, including myself, will be crying empire building very soon.

Empires need Legions, this would be yours

ed316 · 06-14-2006, 04:34 PM

I thought we had one. We just pay 20% of the cost that's all.

David Tate · 06-14-2006, 06:08 PM

I wasn't thinking so much just US, but maybe an addition to the NATO force, for example. A Division level QRF of sorts that would fall under the NATO command or (and this is a strech) a UN command. Like the US Coast Guard... but a different branch of the military. The key is that you would have Americans volunteer to be a part of a force dedicated to NATO or UN missions.

Ea$y-8 · 06-14-2006, 07:23 PM

Immigrant Servicemembers Become Citizens
Associated Press | June 14, 2006

NORFOLK, Virginia - About 150 immigrants who serve in the U.S. military became American citizens Wednesday in a ceremony aboard the aircraft carrier USS George Washington.

Emilio T. Gonzalez, U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services director, administered the oath of allegiance to the service members, including many who recently returned from the Middle East.

"On behalf of a grateful nation I want to congratulate you on becoming America's newest citizens," Gonzalez told 146 members of all branches of the military.

President George W. Bush signed an executive order in 2002 making immigrants serving in the military since the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks immediately eligible for naturalization. Before the order, immigrants in the military had to serve three years before they could apply to become citizens.

Since the attacks, the government has naturalized 24,745 military service members.

The people sworn in as new Americans on Wednesday hail from 50 countries, from Albania to Venezuela.

Sgt. Vasil Mencev became a citizen 31 years after he first came to the U.S. as an infant with his parents and sister. Shortly after they arrived, the family returned to Macedonia because Mencev's mother became terminally ill.

Mencev returned to the U.S. when he turned 20 and eventually joined the Army, spending a year in Iraq riding a fuel truck in convoys. He said he was fulfilling his parents' dreams.

"They came here to get a better future," Mencev said of his late parents.

http://www.military.com/NewsContent/...101171,00.html

Durandal · 06-14-2006, 10:26 PM

No need for one really. Completely redundant.

06-14-2006, 02:51 PM	#1
David Tate Senior Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: Virginia, USA Posts: 2,334	US International Division So... what if: The US decided to create a division, totally seperate of the US Army, as an international division that would be used in international efforts like Afghanistan and Kosovo? Much of the problem with the US working with NATO and other coalitions, is that the US has big issues with their troops serving under a foreign command. So... what if we formed a volunteer international division. Maybe based in former Yugoslavia, Poland or Romania. This unit would be formed under the understanding they would be a part of an international effort that, often times, would fall under a foreign command. Thoughts? PS - This is just thinking out loud and is not connected to any such planning that I know of... just curious about pros and cons from some like minded folks.

06-14-2006, 03:03 PM	#2
Superking Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: drinkin' whiskey and playing poker on a losin night Age: 30 Posts: 1,404	Can i join?

06-14-2006, 03:04 PM	#3
AROUETLJ Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 1,772	I think it would be easier to use existing formations, and to knock some sense into the military-political leadership. A soldier will fight wherever he's told to, and under whichever command. It's the people at the top who are concerned with the petty squabbles and narcissistic patriotism. Quite apart from the fact that one division wouldn't be enough.

06-14-2006, 03:57 PM	#5
tyovan4 The Guy With the Hat Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Pittsburgh - USA Age: 22 Posts: 3,128	Its kind of been done here before actually - the Irish Brigade in the Civil War. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_Brigade_%28US%29

06-14-2006, 04:15 PM	#6
Minardiau Fabio "I wouldn't touch Megan Gale with your dick" Lanzoni Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Leader of the MP.net Socialist Workers Party. Age: 30 Posts: 15,309	I've always wondered why the Americans never allow their troops to fight under the command of another countries general.

06-14-2006, 04:16 PM	#7
ttunavy Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: island living Posts: 106	congress already whines enough about military spending so i couldnt see them shelling out the kind of cash it would require to form this. they would also have to work out the citizenship and clearances issues.

06-14-2006, 04:21 PM	#9
Eudes Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Vicenza, Italy Posts: 205	Dont see the point really. Starting an Army outside the US is a very dangerous thing - ask the French. We have a very professional military, no need to start a Legion to do a job I am ready and willing to do.

06-14-2006, 04:31 PM	#11
tsuri Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Germany,EU Age: 25 Posts: 1,468	It might generally be a nice idea for the US to create a foreign legion. I do not agree with the reasons you give however. US Generals are afraid of putting their troops under foreign command. Will it help to put foreign troops under foreign command? Those troops will very likely be soldiers of fortune and betrayal is possible and likely. If they would be used so no American Mother loses her son in some war, then not a good idea as one division would hardly be noticeable in such a gigantic military machinery the US Military is. Plus many, including myself, will be crying empire building very soon. Empires need Legions, this would be yours

06-14-2006, 04:34 PM	#12
ed316 Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: YOUR place on MY place. Posts: 13,112	I thought we had one. We just pay 20% of the cost that's all.

06-14-2006, 06:08 PM	#13
David Tate Senior Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: Virginia, USA Posts: 2,334	I wasn't thinking so much just US, but maybe an addition to the NATO force, for example. A Division level QRF of sorts that would fall under the NATO command or (and this is a strech) a UN command. Like the US Coast Guard... but a different branch of the military. The key is that you would have Americans volunteer to be a part of a force dedicated to NATO or UN missions.

06-14-2006, 07:23 PM	#14
Ea$y-8 Juvenile member - stupid comments a speciality Join Date: Sep 2005 Age: 20 Posts: 1,703	Immigrant Servicemembers Become Citizens Associated Press \| June 14, 2006 NORFOLK, Virginia - About 150 immigrants who serve in the U.S. military became American citizens Wednesday in a ceremony aboard the aircraft carrier USS George Washington. Emilio T. Gonzalez, U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services director, administered the oath of allegiance to the service members, including many who recently returned from the Middle East. "On behalf of a grateful nation I want to congratulate you on becoming America's newest citizens," Gonzalez told 146 members of all branches of the military. President George W. Bush signed an executive order in 2002 making immigrants serving in the military since the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks immediately eligible for naturalization. Before the order, immigrants in the military had to serve three years before they could apply to become citizens. Since the attacks, the government has naturalized 24,745 military service members. The people sworn in as new Americans on Wednesday hail from 50 countries, from Albania to Venezuela. Sgt. Vasil Mencev became a citizen 31 years after he first came to the U.S. as an infant with his parents and sister. Shortly after they arrived, the family returned to Macedonia because Mencev's mother became terminally ill. Mencev returned to the U.S. when he turned 20 and eventually joined the Army, spending a year in Iraq riding a fuel truck in convoys. He said he was fulfilling his parents' dreams. "They came here to get a better future," Mencev said of his late parents. http://www.military.com/NewsContent/...101171,00.html

06-14-2006, 10:26 PM	#15
Durandal I've got your hardwood.... right here Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Digging in and waiting it out... Posts: 8,664	No need for one really. Completely redundant.