New Armoured Vehicles for British Army

[Noob Brit]

More armoured vehicles for troops

More armoured vehicles have been ordered for British troops in Afghanistan and Iraq, Defence Secretary Des Browne says.
The Land Rovers used at present have been blamed for causing the deaths of up to 18 soldiers by not providing enough protection.

The Ministry of Defence will buy an extra 100 Vector Pinzgauer vehicles for Afghanistan, adding to 62 in service.

In Iraq it will deploy 70 extra FV430 troop carriers, on top of 54 on order.

The FV430 vehicle is similar to Warrior tracked vehicles, but smaller and lighter.

The ministry has also ordered for the first time 100 US Cougars - wheeled patrol vehicles, which are used extensively by US troops in Iraq and cost at least £250,000 each.

FULL STORY

The purchase of Cougars seems a bit out of the blue. Anyone have any more info on whether it's the 4x4 or 6x6 variant. If it's the 6x6 it kind of destroys the argument the MOD used against purchasing the RG31 because it's too large. The Pinzgauer is reported to have great mobility but offers little more protection than the existing Snatch Landrovers. As for the 432s, presumably they're the upgraded models. Does anyone have any idea how long it's going to take to get those in service?






Linky

[snapper036]

About bl**dy time.

I remeber the old Snatches with fondness but they've had there day now and we(the british army) should move with the times and the increased threat we all now face

[Kampfbaer]

The Pinzgauer doesn´t look like it´s protected vs. mines/IEDs, it simply looks like a normal Pinzgauer.

If the car in the second and third picture is the Cougar, it seems to be in the same League as the Dingo.

Does anybody know more details about the Cougar?

[EsoognomEhT]

There's **** loads of those pinzagauzer thingies hanging about Catterick Garrison, just the 4 wheeled versions.

And, updating a 50 year old vehicle (432), only the British!


From a blog;

Having just listened to defence questions, it appears that – contrary to my earlier report - the MoD is NOT buying RG-31s. Defence secretary Des Browne announced he was sending 70 up-armoured FV 432s, and 100 "Cougars", procured "through US military sources".

My confusion about the "Cougars" arises from the fact that the name is used informally for the RG-31s and the price range cited would not have covered the larger vehicle also used by the US Marine Corps, also called the Cougar, used by bomb disposal officers.

But, Browne's response to Michael Gove, who asked why RG-31s were not being bought, indicates that what we are actually getting is a batch of vehicles from the Americans, intended for the Iraqi Army, designated as the Iraqi Light Armoured Vehicle, based on the same chassis as the larger Cougar.

The vehicles, it appears, will be drawn from the batch of 378 ordered from BAE Land Systems (but actually manufactured by Force Protection Inc), which had an option to bring the contract to 1,050 units. It is obviously the speediest way of getting additional armour into theatre.

However, it comes to something when the MoD is reduced to buying equipment destined for the Iraqi Army. One has to wonder how the Iraqi's will feel about having to wait for their equipment when they too are driving around in armoured Land Rovers - with the same tragic results experienced by the British Army – and are expected to take on increasing responsibility for patrolling from the British.

As relevant, the size of these Cougars makes an absolute mockery of Drayson's contention that the RG-31s are too big. Just short of nine feet high, it is exactly nine feet wide and over 20 feet long, weighing in at 15 tons. The RG-31 is a shorter, a foot narrower and nearly two feet lower. While the RG-31 is built on a light truck chassis – originally the Unimog – the Cougar is built on the chassis of a commercial articulated truck chassis.

Make no mistake, though, these are superb vehicles and will considerably enhance the protection afforded to British troops – and they will take the pressure off the hard-pressed Warriors. But patrol vehicles they are not and, if the RG-31 was going to be restricted in the areas it could go, this applies to a much greater extent to the Cougar.

The up-armoured FV432s will also add extra protection – the Israelis use the US equivalent M113 – and it will give commanders an additional armoured option, again taking the pressure off the Warriors. However, it is interesting to see that, in Lebanon, the IDF is using converted Centurion main battle tanks for their front-line APCs.

Altogether, therefore, this shows the MoD in shambles. Reluctant to take on one new vehicle, it has ended acquiring two more, neither of which is optimal. Nevertheless, it is an improvement, for which we should be grateful.

Although, no-ones mentioned the BAE contract except this chap, not sure if hes getting a bit mixed up. or he's on to something

[czr]

That third pic down remindes me of the new Nyala the CF are using in Afghanistan.

[Combatbookworm]

I hope there not talking about the old armored vehicle that Canadian reserves uses now

http://www.army.forces.gc.ca/lf/Engl...asp?product=57

[Royal]

432s

I remember back in '95 (pull up a sandbag and swing the lantern ) waiting for hours for 432's of the LIs mortar platoon to catch up with the rest of the BG as it moved into Republika Srpska on day 1 of IFOR in Bosnia.

They were ancient wrecks back then...

The only good thing about them was that the heaters worked (more than you could say about Warrior in my very limited experience of armour) - ideal for Iraq

[MARK.TIGGER]

have heard the rebuilt 432's have no problems keeping up with warrior. However I do think it was time

432
CVRT
Saxon

were all replaced

[Bulabash]

Didnt the CVRT series get an engine upgrade to diesel and new sensor suite ??

[Royal]

Originally Posted by Bulabash

Didnt the CVRT series get an engine upgrade to diesel and new sensor suite ??

Yes.

SPIRE and then ESPIRE IIRC.

Good kit, but it's still a 1950's chasis and an aluminium hull.

[EsoognomEhT]

Originally Posted by Combatbookworm

I hope there not talking about the old armored vehicle that Canadian reserves uses now

http://www.army.forces.gc.ca/lf/Engl...asp?product=57

Don't think its those.


btw on the subject of the "Cougars the Yanks use" - we've been using them a bit longer than they have ;] (a whole 8 of them!)

http://www.army.mod.uk/ess_ipt_andover/equipments.htm#Truck,%20Mine%20Protected%20Vehicle%20(MPV



Bit of infro from arrse on the details of the original story;

I just had a couple of emails with the journo who wrote the original article. he tells me that delivery is due by the end of the year, the money came from the treasury rather than the MOD budget

[EsoognomEhT]

http://www.publications.parliament.u...#0607249000453

The Secretary of State for Defence (Des Browne): If I may be permitted, Mr. Speaker, in that regard I can announce today the conclusions of an urgent review into protected vehicles for operations, particularly in Iraq. We have identified three complementary ways forward, two of which build on and accelerate work that is ongoing, and the third is new. They will be funded from an acceleration of existing funding and, in part, from substantial new funding from the Treasury for Iraq and Afghanistan. I have set out the details in a written statement. Briefly, we are ordering 100 new Vector vehicles, 70 FV430 vehicles beyond the 54 already ordered, and about 100 new Cougar wheeled armoured vehicles for both theatres.

Michael Gove: The Prime Minister recently underlined the threat to our troops in Iraq from Iranian-backed militias and Iranian-supplied weapons. I am delighted that the Minister has today announced that we are going to upgrade the armoured vehicle fleet available to our troops to protect them from that threat. However, the wheeled armoured vehicles that he has ordered will not be ready for deployment until the end of this year. What consideration was given to the procurement of battle-ready RG31 protected patrol vehicles?

Des Browne: We gave serious consideration to all the vehicles that were available. Thanks to the work that we were able to do with the Americans, and thanks particularly to significant work that my hon. Friend Lord Drayson was able to perform, we were able to identify about 100 Cougar vehicles to which the Americans were prepared to allow us to have access. We chose those because up-armoured, with electronic counter-measures added and with Bowman radios fitted, we believe that they would be the best protected mid-range vehicles in theatre. We made an objective decision to choose them instead of the RG31s. Had we chosen the RG31s, we would have had to fit ECMs and Bowman to them and possibly to up-armour them. In any event, the earliest possible time that we can get them into theatre is in the context of the six-month period of the next two roulements for Iraq and for Afghanistan. It physically could not be done any more quickly with any vehicle.

[DeltaWhisky58]

Defence Secretary orders new vehicles for troops in Iraq and Afghanistan

25 Jul 06

Defence Secretary, Des Browne, has unveiled a package of new equipment to help protect UK Forces in Iraq and Afghanistan following an armoured vehicles review.

The COUGAR medium-weight armoured vehicle (6x6 variant) which is being procured for UK Forces.
[Picture: Force Protection Inc.]

This will include: the purchase of around 100 additional Pinzgauer 'Vector' for Afghanistan, on top of the 66 already on contract, with deliveries to begin early in 2007; the provision, for Iraq, of around 70 uparmoured and upgraded FV430 troop carriers, in addition to the 54 already on contract, with deliveries starting late this year and building up to a mechanised infantry battlegroup by Spring 2007; and the acquisition of around 100 of a new medium weight vehicle, 'Cougar', which is manufactured by Force Protection Incorporated of Charleston, South Carolina, and is expected to be delivered to Iraq and Afghanistan in batches over the next six month rotation, with an effective capability in place in Iraq by the end of the year.
The new package emerged from the urgent review ordered by the Defence Secretary last month, and builds on work that had been ongoing with the MoD. Complementing heavily armoured Warriors and lighter Snatch patrol vehicles, these new vehicles will give commanders on the ground in Iraq and Afghanistan more options to deal with the developing threats they are facing.






Des Browne said:

"The protection of our Forces is a top priority. I have made clear my determination to provide commanders on the ground in Iraq and Afghanistan with the resources they need to do the job.

"Military operations are inherently risky and armour is only the innermost layer in the force protection system. But this package of new equipment shows we are doing everything possible to provide our troops with some of the best protection available.
"May I take this opportunity to congratulate all those within the MoD for their excellent work in assessing the available options and sourcing an excellent solution to our soldiers' requirements."



The enhanced 6 x 6 Pinzgauer force protection vehicle.
[Picture: MOD]

VECTOR provides good protection and, importantly, increased mobility and capacity compared to SNATCH Landrovers which makes it very suitable for the rugged terrain and long patrol distances in Afghanistan.

The up-armoured FV430 will provide a similar level of protection to Warrior while being less intimidating and having less impact on local infrastructure - thereby providing commanders with an important additional option. It will be able to carry out many of the same tasks as Warrior, so it will also relieve pressure on heavily committed Warrior vehicles and armoured infantry battlegroups.


An AFV 430
[Picture: Army]

Cougar meets the requirement for a well protected, wheeled patrol vehicle with a less intimidating profile than tracked vehicles like Warrior or FV430. Once the vehicles are delivered they will be customised with essential Bowman radios and electronic counter-measures - and then fitted with additional armour beyond the standard level, to ensure they have the best possible protection.
Before today's announcement, the Ministry of Defence had already spent over £527m on Urgent Operational Requirements for Iraq and Afghanistan designed to improve force protection. This is in addition to the planned £6bn annual defence procurement budget.
Force Protection Urgent Operational Requirement – Key Facts
Expenditure on Force Protection

• Iraq – over £404M spent
• Afghanistan - over £123M
• Total of over £527M: In addition to £6bn annual defence procurement budget
• £147M on vehicle and personal protection
• £181M on aircraft protection
• £199M on ECM

Vehicle protection already completed

• Protection upgrades for AFVs including Challenger 2, Warrior, FV430 (in progress), Saxon, CVR(T), Challenger Armoured Recovery Vehicles
• Conversion of Saxon to produce armoured ambulances including air-con
• Conversion and new-build of Snatch Mk2 Land Rovers
• Protected vehicles for specialist tasks, such as VIP transport
• Blast and ballistic protection for soft-skin B vehicles including DROPs, recovery vehicles, Heavy Equipment Transporters
• Machine-gun mounts for self-defence of Heavy Equipment Transporters
• Wire cutter defences (in progress) for vehicles – local immediate modifications will be replaced by purpose-designed kit

Personal protection

• Osprey Improved Combat Body Armour for normal operational duties
• Kestrel Enhanced Protection Body Armour for top-cover sentries
• Body armour for specialist personnel
• Ballistic Eye Protection
• Camp/base surveillance and attack alarm systems

ECM/EOD

• Comprehensive Electronic Counter-Measures suites for all vehicle and foot patrols
• Training versions of ECM for pre-deployment training
• Specialist ECM to support Explosive Ordnance Disposal tasks
• Protected specialist vehicles for EOD teams
• Lightweight heli-borne EOD vehicles for Afghanistan
• Improved lightweight EOD robot vehicles
• Mine clearance equipment

Aircraft protection

• Explosion Suppressant Foam being installed on C-130s
• Improved defensive aids suites for air transport and helicopters
• Improved flares
• Improved communications for air transport and helicopters to aid situational awareness
• Flight deck armour for air transport and Nimrods

http://www.mod.uk/DefenceInternet/De...fghanistan.htm

[Hydro]

Jesus that Cougar looks the business. The "new" FV432's sre supposed to be much more powerful, purely for the reason to keep up with WR and CR2.

[Sabre]

Well, the idea is that they strip the lot of it out and put in a new engine and drive system. After that I assume they'll have some dosh left over to provide some bolt on armour packages, otherwise we'll only succeed in making a new 'tommy cooker'.

It amuses me that in the above article it states several times that these vehicles are 'less intimidating' than warrior or challies. Typical MoD PC BS. Civvies in the middle east are used to seeing weapons, it's part of their daily life. Armoured vehicles are too now. They've seen us and the yanks patrol their roads in warriors and bradleys for a few years, they are used to it. The primary concern isn't if they feel intimidated or not, but whether our blokes are sufficiently protected.