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#1 |
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Member
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 41
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Individual spies (or spy rings) rarely alter military history, for a variety of reasons. The Sorge spy ring in Tokyo, for example, warned Stalin repeatedly about Operation Barbarossa and was ignored. (Stalin later paid attention when he needed to know if Japan would attack Siberia in late 1941.)
Can anyone think of an instance where a spy network altered the course of a battle or campaign? |
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#2 |
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Diapering BTDT
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots.
Age: 36
Posts: 5,941
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The Normandy landings, when the germans were ¨sure¨ patton was going to invade Pas de Calais
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#3 | |
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Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Canada
Posts: 4,161
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#4 |
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Member
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 41
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Good point - probably the best military intel, historically, has come from blunders and turncoats, rather than professional spies - at least in the days before really good sigint. Turncoats would include:
* the Greek who betrayed the route around the pass at Thermopylae to the Persians, allowing them to wipe out the Spartans; and * Benedict Arnold at West Point. Blunders would include: * Robert E. Lee's general orders prior to Antietam winding up wrapped around cigars in a Yankee enlisted man's pocket; * the Luftwaffe's failure to enforce encryption discipline; and * Mary Queen of Scots' use of a weak cipher when plotting against Queen Elizabeth I. |
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#5 |
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Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: The NAU
Age: 38
Posts: 1,324
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While maybe not qualified as spies, I do think this is a good candidate for the military intel: Marion Riyetski (spelling?) The Polish cryptanalyst who figured out how one could begin to decipher the German Enigma code.
My other choice would be Jean Moulin, French Resistance hero who managed to unify the varying resistance factions in France into a more cohesive and cooperative force, with emphasis on better overall planning. Although the differing factions still squabbled and distrusted eachother in some way or another, they at least agreed to kill the enemy, and not to kill eachother like the partisans in Yugoslavia ended up doing. |
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#6 | |
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Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: The NAU
Age: 38
Posts: 1,324
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#7 |
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Member
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Australia
Age: 18
Posts: 304
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a major military intel coup would be Operation Mincemeat
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Mincemeat Last edited by Lord Of War; 08-05-2006 at 02:05 AM. |
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#8 |
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Senior Member
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Ordieganda
Age: 42
Posts: 12,590
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Battle of Midway.
It turned the tide of war in the Pacific. |
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#9 |
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Fabio "I wouldn't touch Megan Gale with your dick" Lanzoni
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Leader of the MP.net Socialist Workers Party.
Age: 30
Posts: 15,311
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Canaris
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wilhelm_Canaris He done so much to keep Spain out of the war and helped the Allies quite a bit in his role as head of German Military Intelligence. |
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#10 |
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Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: In all manner of unsuitable locations, usually at night, invariably with a number of ladies.
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Breaking the Germans' Enigma codes.
It wasnt' the Ultra secret for nothing. |
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#11 |
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Milo Drinker of Death
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: The (South)Island of Misfit Toys
Posts: 7,553
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I'd go wth the 4 following:
1.) Polish/English Enigma crack 2.) American "Purple" crack 3.) Soviet comprehensive penetration of the Manhattan Project 4.) Something not in open source yet. |
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#12 | |
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Diapering BTDT
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots.
Age: 36
Posts: 5,941
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#13 |
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Member
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 42
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DR. R.V Jones, father of modern scientific intelligence, played a large part in saving England during the Battle of Britain and was a pioneer in electronic warfare, detecting and jamming German radars of all types.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reginald_Victor_Jones His book, "Most Secret War" is a classic if you can find it. |
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#14 |
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Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: With the AG-3 fetish club
Posts: 2,080
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In Norway Henry Oliver Rinnan must have been a pretty effective spy.
At the end of WW-2 he was at least the seccond most hated traitor in Norway after Quisling. Born at Levanger north of Trondheim on the 14th of may 1915, he initialy served as a truck driver with the Norwegian armed forces during the German invasion of 1940, though allready as early as june 1940 he was recruited as an agent by/for the German security services. Shortly thereafter Rinnan started to build a network of informers for the Gestapo, based on the city of Trondheim, that as time passed became designated as "Sonderabteilung Lola" by the Germans. One of the main tactics of sonderabteilung lola was to work as agent provocateurs playing the role as members of the resistance or on at least one occasion as downed RAF pilots on the run from the Germans. When they had gained their first break into a true resistance network this way, they would follow up with arrests and use of torture to wind up the rest. This way Sonderabteilung Lola or "the Rinnan gang", as it was known to most Norwegians, made Life very difficult for the Norwegian resistance and allied intelligence networks in the mid part of Norway for a good part of the war. The work of Sonderabteilung Lola led to hundreds being arrested and subjected to torture, and the killing/execution of 80 individuals. At the end of the war Rinnan and several members of his unit tried to escape to Sweden, but were arrested by members of the resistance just short of the border. While in prison in Trondheim he tried one more time to escape during the christmas of 1945, with the hope of reaching the Soviet Union to apply for work with Soviet intelligence. Rinnan was, besides treasonable acts in service of the German occupying force, charged for personaly killing 13 people condemned to death in court. He was executed by firing squad at the Kristiansten fortress in Trondheim on the 1st of february 1947. He not only was an eval man, but looked the part too IMO ![]() As an interesting sidelight to the history of Henry Rinnan, one of his German handlers later became a senior figure within the West German Bundesnachrictendienst. |
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#15 |
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Member
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Boston / Alanya
Age: 33
Posts: 442
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Ivy Bells.....
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