Argentine Marine Commandos capture of the Falklands (1982)

[Charly84]

Originally Posted by welshmann

Lancaster in 1982?

No, they arrived at the end of the 2WW, both Lancanster and Lincoln. Then replaced by A-4P Skyhawk in the 60's.
As a payment of the debt due to the war, many military harware was sent from England. This included Gloster Meteors (+100) , Lincolns and Lancasters (45).

[EsoognomEhT]

Originally Posted by Charly84

Now, returning to the topic, Argentina had strong presence in Malvinas/Falklands before the war. The fuel system was bulid by YPF (Yacimientos Petroliferos Fiscales - National Fuel company), the runway, the same that RAF an RN where unable to destroy during the conflict, was built by LADE (Linea Aérea del Estado - National Airline), who was the only air connection with the continent.

Argentina, at the moment of the conflict was planing to buy Sea Lynx. The navy had bought Type 42 destroyers. And the airforce was a large operator of English-built aircrafts like Canberra, Lancaster, Gloster Meteor, etc.

.

Indeed, the de Mayo had visited Portsmouth for catapult trials and we demonstrated a Sea Harrier onboard her in 1969 as we were trying to sell them as a replace for the A-4Q's..could have been interesting :E

[welshmann]

so,at the time of the conflict how strong was the argie navy?(ships and seabased aircover)how powerfull would it have been against a british nuc sub being in the area(apart from the taskforce)

[bluffcove]

Well clearly we were good friends. Thatcher pulled Endeavour out of the South Atlantic because she thought they could be trusted. If they had waited afew years Britain would probably have sold them out.

Thieving Pikeys did for thesmelves really by trying to "win" them as opposed to signing them over, The small aptriotic war does wanders for a governments image and I presume that Thatchers enduring image from the time was what Galtieri was trying to create for himself when he mistakenly invaded.

[CMN]

Originally Posted by Latin Jewish Soldier

My point is as mister Reagan famously declared at the time that he could not understand why two allies were arguing over "That little ice-cold bunch of land down there"

The other side of this is Reagan knew damn well the US was supplying hardware to Britain.

Cheeky.

[bluffcove]

Not hardware.

Intelligence and imagery.

[EsoognomEhT]

Originally Posted by welshmann

so,at the time of the conflict how strong was the argie navy?(ships and seabased aircover)how powerfull would it have been against a british nuc sub being in the area(apart from the taskforce)

Argentinean Forces

Despite some senior Ministry of Defence officials believing Argentina to be a rather backwards military force, second rate at best, she possessed a navy that could be described as substantial. At least six of her ships had been fitted with the Exocet missiles, and two of her German built submarines were notoriously difficult to detect when in silent running, coupled with this she had a large air force. The performance of which drew much admiration from the British forces, if for their courage and determination rather than capability.

Air Forces

Mirage 3
Produced in 1960 the Mirage 3 was designed for conventional air combat, its large wing area gives it impressive manoeuvrability at high speeds. The operational radius of the Mirage 3 meant it could easily reach the Falklands from airbases on mainland Argentina, however at combat speeds its fuel consumption rises considerably meaning that it had limited time in which to operate in the actual war zone. It would be originally operated as an escort aircraft for the attacking Skyhawks although after the first days engagements this was a role it would perform only on limited occasions.

Skyhawk
The McDonnell Douglas A-4 Skyhawk was an American designed single seater attack-bomber, originally in service with the United States Navy it had seen extensive action in Vietnam. At the start of the Falklands conflict the FAA was known to posses 48 Skyhawks, with the ANA operating a further 20 from the Vientecinco De Mayo.[3] A Skyhawk loaded with two 250 gallon fuel tanks on its wing pylons would enable it to reach the Falklands could carry four 500lb bombs in its belly.[4]

Super-Etendard
The Dassault Super Etendard is a French built single-seat carrier borne attack aircraft. It’s highly efficient radar, navigation and aiming systems made it the only aircraft in the Argentine inventory capable of carrying the Exocet missile. Despite ordering ten aircraft as well as a simulator, at the start of the Falklands conflict only five Super Etendard’s had been delivered, the simulator had not arrived either and the necessary modifications to the carrier Vientecinco De Mayo had not been completed in time for the aircraft to be deployed aboard the carrier.[5] Arms embargoes ensured that no further aircraft were delivered to the Argentineans during the conflict.



Naval Power

In April 1982 the Argentine Navy included one aircraft carrier, one cruiser, eight destroyers, five frigates and four submarines.[9] The focal point was the 16,000 ton light fleet carrier the Vientecinco De Mayo, originally in service with the Royal Navy as HMS Venerable before being sold to the Dutch Navy in 1948. The De Mayo usually carried 12 Skyhawks, six ASW aircraft and four Sea King helicopters. After the sinking of the Cruiser General Belgrano the De Mayo returned to port and took no further part in the conflict, thus ending the possibility of a confrontation between Argentina’s and Britain’s carriers. The ARA General Belgrano was built as the USS Phoenix and had survived the Japanese attack on PealHarbour. Although somewhat antiquated by 1982 she still possessed fifteen 6inch guns that could pose a serious threat to the Task Force, and as such she was sunk by the nuclear attack submarine HMS Conqueror on the 2nd May 1982. It has since been revealed that a sizeable force, including Argentina’s two British built Exocet equipped Type42 Destroyers, was heading towards the Task Force at this time, they promptly turned and headed for home when they received news of the Belgrano, this was to be the Argentinean Navy’s last actions in the Falklands War.[10]


[2] Battle for the Falklands (3) Air Forces, Page 5

[3] Battle For The Falklands (2) Naval Forces, page 35

[4] Battle for the Falklands (3) Air Forces, Page 53

[5] Lieutenant Commander James Haggart, The Falklands Islands Conflict; Air Defence of the Fleet (US Marine Corps Command and Staff College, May 1984) Chapter 3

[6] Armed Forces Journal International, July 1982, p. 30.
[7]The FalklandsIslands Conflict; Air Defence of the Fleet, Chapter 4

[8] Bryan Perrett, Weapons of the Falklands Conflict (Poole, Blanford Press, 1982) Page 45

[9] Battle For The Falklands (2) Naval Forces, Page 7

[welshmann]

cheers mongoose for that info.

[CruddyLeper]

Originally Posted by bluffcove

Not hardware.

Intelligence and imagery.

You forgot the AIM 9-L and alledgedly (probably) the Stingers. ANd the MK82s used in the bombing of port Stanley airfield.

As well as use of Wideawake Airfield.

And nobody has mentioned yet that the Falklands and other islands are the only UK landfall before you hit Antarctica.

Might or might not be oil in the Falklands, but there's a big lot of real estate way down south of that that hasn't even been prospected.

[DeltaWhisky58]

Originally Posted by CruddyLeper

You forgot the AIM 9-L and alledgedly (probably) the Stingers. ANd the MK82s used in the bombing of port Stanley airfield.

As well as use of Wideawake Airfield.

And nobody has mentioned yet that the Falklands and other islands are the only UK landfall before you hit Antarctica.

Might or might not be oil in the Falklands, but there's a big lot of real estate way down south of that that hasn't even been prospected.

Wideawake airfield on Ascension Island actually belongs to us - it was only leased to the US. Ascension Island is a British possession along with St Helena and Tristan Da Cunha.

[bluffcove]

I have not seen any evidence of Stingers in the Islands.
Rapier and blowpipe but not much in the way of Stingers.

Equally im sure that we'd bought the ordnance used in the Vulcan run prior to the conflict and it wasnt a case of buying equipment on thesly to counter the Argentine threat.

Wideawake is ours it is on lease. as has already been said.

[bluffcove]

Mongoose are you at KCL?
I think a Mutual friend "Ozmunt" might have leant me your essay to prof from!

[EsoognomEhT]

Originally Posted by welshmann

cheers mongoose for that info.

Glad my dissertation is finally of some use

And god no I'm not at KCL! I'm a northerner damn you!

[Ordie]

Galteri was hedging that the US will remain neutral or supportive on the premise of Argentina's involvement against leftist guerillas in Central America and the Monroe Doctrine.

[Charly84]

Armada Argentina - Argentine Navy

ARA 25 de Mayo V-2 Aircraft carrier

ARA General Belgrano C-4 Light cruiser Brooklyn type

ARA Hercules D-1 Destroyer Type 42
ARA Santisima Trinidad D-2 Destroyer Type 42

ARA Domecq Garcia D-23 Destroyer Gearing 1973 type
ARA Segui D-25 Destroyer Sumner 1972 type
ARA Bouchard D-26 Destroyer Sumner 1972 type
ARA Py D-27 Destroyer Gearing 1973 type
ARA Piedra Buena D-29 Destroyer Sumner 1972 type

ARA Drummond P-31 Corvette
ARA Guerrico P-32 Corvette
ARA Granville P-33 Corvette

ARA Santa Fe S-21 Sub. Guppy mod. class
ARA Santiago del Estero S-22 Sub. Guppy mod. class
ARA Salta S-31 Sub Type 209
ARA San Luis S-32 Sub. Type 209

+ support vessels: MCM, OPV, Transport, LST, Icebrakers, etc.

Comando de Aviación Naval (COAN) - Air Naval Command

+5 MB-339s 1 Escuadrilla Aeronaval Caza y Ataque (EA1CA) -1st.Attack Sqdrn.
4 Mentor T-34C EA4CA - 4th Attack Sqdrn. (COIN)
4 Super Etendard EA2CA - 2nd Attack Sqdrn.
+8 A-4Q Skyhawk EA3CA - 3rd. Attack Sqdrn.
6 S-2E Tracker Escuadrilla Aeronaval Antisub. - ASW Sqdrn.
2 SP-2H Neptune Escuadrilla Aeronaval de Exploracion - Recon.Sqdrn.
2? EMB-111 Patrulha Escuadrilla Aeronav. Explrcn. - Recon.Sqdrn.
5 SH-3D Sea King EA2H - 2nd. Helo. Sqdrn.
2 Sea Lynx Mk23 EA1H - 1st. Helo. Sqdrn.
+5 Alouette II EA1H - 1st. Helo. Sqdrn.

note: +5 MB-339s and 4 T-34Cs deployed in the island. The rest remained in the continent. EMB-111 Patrulha borrowed from FAB - Brazil AF

+ Support aircrafts in the continent:Fokker F-28s, King Air 200, L-188 Electra, etc.