FN FAL L1A1 SLR -vs- Enfield L85 (SA80) assault rifle

[snake_eater]

I do not understand why the British armed forces would drop a fine weapon like the L1A1 SLR for a POS like the Enfield L85.

[Seeds]

Probably because their L1A1 fleet was worn out to the point they could not teach marksmanship with weapons that would not group, for NATO standardisation to 5.56 and a whole lot of other reasons

[Brozozo]

The fact that all of NATO converted to 5.56 was definitely a major factor.

[ßå$tĮТHÏ¿ð]

SLR is the way to go

[Seeds]

While a great weapon, it is still too heavy and long, esspecially for mech or MOUT operations

[Aussie E]

The Australian SASR used the SLR with devastating results in Vietnam, many were modified with short barrels and converted to full-auto. In one friendly fire incident between an ARVN platoon and a SASR patrol, after the firing stopped the ARVN wanted to see the .50 cal HMG that the Aussie's had with them, they had mistaken the slowy heavy sound of the SLR's for a .50 cal. If anyones interested the book "Behind Enemy Lines" by O'Farrel has this and many other great stories about his experience with the SASR in Vietnam.

[Ballistic.]

The SLR is a damn fine weapon, heavy but I found it acurate and easy to use. Had one hell of a kick for a young Cadet to fire (many years ago ) But I thoroughly enjoyed handling it.

I guess the biggest reason for the swap was standardisation, lighter, and a replacement for aging kit.

[Uninen]

The weapons are of different classes.. you cant compare em..

Be as it may that SA 80 replaced L1A1, the SA 80 still is assault rifle and L1A1 was semi automatic battle rifle...

Its like comparing SVD Dragunov (WHICH IS NOT SNIPER RIFLE!!!) to AK-74.. makes no sense.

[martinexsquaddie]

simple 120 rounds basic load slr
600 rounds 5.56
soldiers in the falklands were clearing trenches at bayonet pint as they'd run out of ammo.
I loved the SLR but the ability to carry more rounds makes the SA80 better for war fighting personally I'd take the SLR but we are not allowoed to own semi auto rifles
rumour had it they brough in the ban because too many squaddies were looking at buying civi 5.56 rifles

[Tony Williams]

Originally Posted by Uninen

The weapons are of different classes.. you cant compare em..

Well, you can't avoid comparing them as one replaced the other as the British Army's standard battle rifle.

There are three different issues here: the calibre, the configuration and the quality/reliability.

The calibre change was a result of the adoption of the 5.56mm as the NATO standard. There are pros and cons - lighter ammo weight for the 5.56mm plus lighter recoil enabling controlled automatic fire, but less effectiveness and range. Personally I think that something in between would have been better - and still would - and maybe we'll eventually get that with the new 6.8x43 Rem SPC.

The bullpup configuration had been favoured by the British Army since the late 1940s; in the early 1950s they actually adopted the EM-2 bullpup in 7mm calibre, before the Americans forced them to drop it in favour of a 7.62mm calibre weapon. However, the SA80 is not a very good bullpup design, being right-hand only and rather heavy with a marked rearward weight bias.

The quality/reliability issues with the SA80 are very well known. However, they now seem to have been corrected. See: http://www.quarry.nildram.co.uk/SA80.htm for the full story.

Tony Williams: Military gun and ammunition website and Discussion forum

[Gringo]

When will these polls ever end!!!!!????? :P

[Royal]

Originally Posted by Tony Williams

The calibre change was a result of the adoption of the 5.56mm as the NATO standard. There are pros and cons - lighter ammo weight for the 5.56mm plus lighter recoil enabling controlled automatic fire,

Without a bipod or better still a tripod there is no such thing. Automatic fire is necessary for room/trench clearing, but controlled it ain't.

Originally Posted by Tony Williams

The bullpup configuration had been favoured by the British Army since the late 1940s; in the early 1950s they actually adopted the EM-2 bullpup in 7mm calibre, before the Americans forced them to drop it in favour of a 7.62mm calibre weapon.

Not true. EM-2 was triled, but never adopted - largely for the reason you've given.

Originally Posted by Tony Williams

However, the SA80 is not a very good bullpup design, being right-hand only and rather heavy with a marked rearward weight bias.

The right/left handed issue is true, although I've never met a left handed soldier who couldn't be trained to shoot (a rifle) right handed. The weight issue is actually an advantage as it keeps a short weapon well seated in the shoulder and thus aids the accuracy of what is already a very accurate weapon.

[Stavka]

FAL all the way baby, all the way!

[Falco]

Never fired either of them so I can't say for sure. Could we say that the L1A1 is like the M14 while the SA80 is like the M4/16?

[Gringo]

the SLR I suppose. Not a fan of bullpup at all.